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Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Civilization III > Civ3-Strategy > Do we need to restore courage to barbs?
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vmxa1 is offline vmxa1
Deity
Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:32
  Old Post 27-12-2003 13:33
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#1 Report this post to a moderator
Do we need to restore courage to barbs? Tired of ads?

I am wondering if it maybe time to buck these puppies up a bit.
I sent an army of crusaders (4x) to attack a city. The city was size 2 and had three unit (warrior/archer/spear). I got close and saw next to the city 9 horsemen barbs and 2 warriors. These brave souls sit there why the AI was sending its archer out to hit them.

They finally decided to send the last 10 at my army, that was on a hill. Can you say doom? Then I took the city. BTW no promotions for killing all 10 barbs and three Sumerians, I had the Epic.

In the previous game I had a similar stack sit next to my city (size 2 or 3) and I had two AC's in it. They never attacked, while I send a few more units over to take them out piece meal.

I am seeing more and more of this behavior. I know they want to make the barbs stop killing themself, but this is silly.

Flip McWho is offline Flip McWho
Warlord
New Zealand
May 2002
time: 17:32
  Old Post 27-12-2003 15:18
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Put an end to popups!

Yeah i've noticed that too. When you pop them from goodie huts only one attacks you then the rest fortify.

They do need beefing up again don't they. I mean now they don't even inspire fear into anyone.

CerberusIV is offline CerberusIV
King

Oct 2002
time: 05:32
  Old Post 27-12-2003 21:07 Visit CerberusIV's homepage!
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I just played a game as the Sumerians. At the far end of my continent an Enkidu discovered a barb camp with around fifteen barb horsemen sitting in it. I moved onto an adjacent mountain and then attacked. Every time I took damage I fortified the Enkidu until he healed then attacked again. My unit went through about half the stack before dying. A bit pointless really.

Barbs do need to be more aggressive.

ChrisiusMaximus is offline ChrisiusMaximus
Emperor
Staffordshire England
Jul 2002
time: 05:32
  Old Post 27-12-2003 21:37
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Is their any difference if you increase the barb settings?

Paddy the Scot is offline Paddy the Scot

Prince
Hordeland
Mar 2001
time: 14:32
  Old Post 27-12-2003 22:21 Visit Paddy the Scot<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/inmate-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Flip McWho
Yeah i've noticed that too. When you pop them from goodie huts only one attacks you then the rest fortify.

They do need beefing up again don't they. I mean now they don't even inspire fear into anyone.


Yes, I agree, they do need some work.
It is pointless having scared barbarians in a game.

vmxa1 is offline vmxa1
Deity
Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:32
  Old Post 28-12-2003 00:03
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quote:
Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus
Is their any difference if you increase the barb settings?


Not sure as I always use roaming. Even though fane7 gave us the road map to leaders with raging

MrWhereItsAt is offline MrWhereItsAt
Emperor
New Year's Resolution: 2005 is the year of Where It's At - come get some.
Nov 2001
time: 17:32
  Old Post 28-12-2003 11:46
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Playing on Raging, it is almost as bad. I am encountering (on Monarch) bands of 6-7 Barbs in a camp that stay there, even with undefended cities/workers nearby. If I accidentally misclick and move a worker next to them they attack, but if I move a warrior or archer there they only attack after a turn or two of nothing. I have seen this several times, so it seems they must wait a certain period before attacking.

Strange, yes? OTOH there DOES seem to perhaps be a greater incidence of barbs (several turning up all at once in the one hut).

vmxa1 is offline vmxa1
Deity
Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:32
  Old Post 28-12-2003 11:50
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I do feel that the huts are more inclinded to pop barbs. It seems very hard to get any tech for me as an non-expansionist civ.

There was a time where the barbs would sneak around to do some pillaging, but even that now rare, just fort up.

Last edited by vmxa1 on 28-12-2003 at 23:42

Flip McWho is offline Flip McWho
Warlord
New Zealand
May 2002
time: 17:32
  Old Post 28-12-2003 12:35
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Yeah I agree. Goodie huts are no longer really goodie. They almost always give barbs.

Maybe we've seen the beginning of the new pacifistic barbarian. Nothing like peaceful warriors striking fear into the innocent.

ducki is offline ducki
King

Sep 2002
time: 23:32
  Old Post 28-12-2003 18:32
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Sounds like another nice PtW feature that somehow missed the C3C branch on the code tree.

I've also noticed the extra wimpiness of barbs with Conquests. No pillaging, no attacking "easy" targets, just lame elite-generators.

Makahlua is offline Makahlua
Queen
Republic of Texas....er I mean the 28th state in the Union ^^
Sep 2002
time: 23:32
  Old Post 28-12-2003 19:34 Visit Makahlua's homepage!
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Yeah like the stack of 10 pikemen that kept bouncing in and out of the border of one of my cites in the Mesoamerica conquest yesterday

#1, how did a camp generate -pikeman- ? Maybe I just usually don't have any camps left when me/the AI gets to new eras.

#2, those chickens could've taken my lone spear easily but just kept bouncing back on and off the mountain by the city - a prime attack point no less!

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:32
  Old Post 28-12-2003 22:58
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They should make the basic barb a Gallic Swordsman and the advanced the Keshik

quote:
#1, how did a camp generate -pikeman- ? Maybe I just usually don't have any camps left when me/the AI gets to new eras.


It was probably a special scenario feature... in the epic game they don't do that.

vmxa1 is offline vmxa1
Deity
Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:32
  Old Post 28-12-2003 23:47
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In the General Settign on the editor you can set the barbs to any unit. It could be the basic one or the advanced one. It is up to you.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:32
  Old Post 29-12-2003 00:28
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#14 Report this post to a moderator
Suffering from ads?

Yes, I know. I actually tried that once, then quit when dozens of barbarians kept raiding my helpless capital.

Last edited by Kuciwalker on 07-01-2004 at 10:50

MrMismatch is offline MrMismatch
Settler

Dec 2003
time: 05:32
  Old Post 29-12-2003 07:52
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Is it possible to change when the brabs change from basic to advanced?

Cerbykins is offline Cerbykins
Warlord

Dec 2003
time: 05:32
  Old Post 29-12-2003 09:55
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Increase the size of your Attachments

Not that I know of.
It is bad that barbs don't seem to want to charge anymore, but considering that goody huts have finally been tweaked to give expansionists the edge...well...do you REALLY want jumped in the early exploring phase?

Inverse Icarus is offline Inverse Icarus
Emperor
flying too low to the ground
May 2001
time: 00:32
  Old Post 29-12-2003 10:33 Visit Inverse Icarus's homepage!
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#17 Report this post to a moderator
Tired of ads?

i really like the fact that the barbarians seem to run into the shadows, and try their damndest to kill workers / pillage roads.

but yeah, i've seen them sitting in camps in large stacks, for no reason.

CerberusIV is offline CerberusIV
King

Oct 2002
time: 05:32
  Old Post 29-12-2003 21:53 Visit CerberusIV's homepage!
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I pushed barbs up from roaming back to raging for my current game. Horsemen are just starting to appear.

The barbs seem erratic. There is a definite radius around a barb camp and if you have a worker or city within it they come running. If not they sit and a stack builds up.

I am interested to see what happens if there are any camps left when the next era is reached. In a couple of my earlier games that seemed to trigger huge stacks of barbs heading for the nearest city.

UnityScoutChopper is offline UnityScoutChopper
Warlord
Brno, Czech Republic
Oct 2000
time: 06:32
  Old Post 29-12-2003 22:33
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#19 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

I find them actually a bit tougher this way -- "gather and attack" rather than "piecemeal."

USC

vmxa1 is offline vmxa1
Deity
Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:32
  Old Post 29-12-2003 23:36
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CerberusIV after two civs make it to the middle ages it triggers barb uprisings.

CerberusIV is offline CerberusIV
King

Oct 2002
time: 05:32
  Old Post 30-12-2003 02:18 Visit CerberusIV's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by vmxa1
CerberusIV after two civs make it to the middle ages it triggers barb uprisings.


I know. It makes life interesting if you are behind in tech and not ready for it.

EnduringBlue is offline EnduringBlue
Settler

Dec 2003
time: 05:32
  Old Post 02-01-2004 03:22
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I have been so disgusted with the ineffectual barbarians now (I used to routinely add RAGING to my old games in order to make me mind my P's and Q's, now they just fortify unless settlers park on their doorstep) that I routinely edit their units to swordsman/knight/caravel.

at least then i can't ignore them. they used to be a crucial factor, but lately they need more testosterone.

Cerbykins is offline Cerbykins
Warlord

Dec 2003
time: 05:32
  Old Post 02-01-2004 11:59
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Shame for me, because that's partly what I do to get shot of camps - move in the settler with a defender and build next to the camp (thus guaranteeing the barbs will be on a downward slide... )
Of course, that's only if wanted to build there in the first place

Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:32
  Old Post 07-01-2004 05:53
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#24 Report this post to a moderator
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Without question, this needs to be addressed.

I had a stack of barb horsemen sit in place in a hut (after an era change) just SIT THERE while a whittled them down for elite promotions.

ducki is offline ducki
King

Sep 2002
time: 23:32
  Old Post 07-01-2004 10:07
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I can top your promotion machine Tired of ads?

Dig this. Border just bumped. Hut got popped. Barbarians come raging out and....

....sit down for a picnic? They could sack my capitol and take my workers or at least chase them all over the place. But no, they fortify in place. And I don't have a single military unit even close to them.



:doubletake:

Attachment: weeniebarbs.jpg
This has been downloaded 72 time(s).

Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:32
  Old Post 07-01-2004 11:41
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Suffering from ads?

To vmxa1's point:

You should be dead.

Firaxians: Not only do barbs need to re-gain some viciousness, we need to go back to Civ2...

Paddy the Scot is offline Paddy the Scot

Prince
Hordeland
Mar 2001
time: 14:32
  Old Post 07-01-2004 14:02 Visit Paddy the Scot<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/inmate-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by ducki
Dig this. Border just bumped. Hut got popped. Barbarians come raging out and....

....sit down for a picnic? They could sack my capitol and take my workers or at least chase them all over the place. But no, they fortify in place. And I don't have a single military unit even close to them.



:doubletake:


ah well, looks like the AI is using these Barbarians as AI defensive units in case one of the AI nations attacks you...

Quite amazing actually, thanks for the pic

MrWhereItsAt is offline MrWhereItsAt
Emperor
New Year's Resolution: 2005 is the year of Where It's At - come get some.
Nov 2001
time: 17:32
  Old Post 07-01-2004 15:24
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quote:
Originally posted by ducki
Dig this. Border just bumped. Hut got popped. Barbarians come raging out and....

....sit down for a picnic? They could sack my capitol and take my workers or at least chase them all over the place. But no, they fortify in place. And I don't have a single military unit even close to them.

:doubletake:


Brilliant ducki - thanks for the screenie. I saw this recently myself, but neglected to post one. I guess we just see what happened in v1.13....

ducki is offline ducki
King

Sep 2002
time: 23:32
  Old Post 07-01-2004 20:22
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I was gonna post a follow-up. I switched production to a settler, lost my warrior to the southern barbs, roaded 5 more tiles, mined 1, irrigated 2, settled a new town(with no escort) on the third tile down the river and until my workers started roading/irrigating the southern-most Ivory before southernmost of the northern barbs even MOVED, at which point he worked his way to the southern ivory and ate my workers - finally.

That's just ridiculous. I miss the PtW barbs. At least they would have pillaged improvements or explored or SOMETHING. I wonder how we get this to the attention of Jesse - any of you old pros got a line?

vmxa1 is offline vmxa1
Deity
Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:32
  Old Post 07-01-2004 21:51
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That is all I am asking for. Just a tiny tweak to make them not be so whimpy. No need to go back to them tossing themself against forted spears behind walls, just pillage when it is at no risk. Attack when you have the numbers, such as three pop out of a hut and only a regular warrior is there. If they all attack and die, that is fine, but if they all fort up, what is the results? The warrior kills them at his lesiure or walks off. I don't want to go back to the automate elite for popping a hut.

Uprisings not attacking is crazy. I used to live in fear that a stack of 8 or more horsemen would come into a town with one defender. Now they do nothing, not even pillage.

 
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