27-12-2003 22:36									#1
	why doesn't my barbarian cities produce units? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I've recently played around with version 2 of my scenario Hammer of the North. I've noticed a slight problem with my barbarian cities. They don't seem to produce the units they're supposed to. There is simply no shield buildup in the production boxes, even though their cities often have between 5 or 10 shields to build from.

Anyone have a clue what might be the problem?

I made the barbarian cities and their production with CivCity, which is different from what I used to do. I used to do it the old-fashioned way, letting land-grounded barb units take control of the cities, and then change the units to whatever they had to be. I don't recall a similar problem then. The cities would always reproduce the unit that took control of the city, be it changed to air, sea og whatever roles and domain. But now, no barbarian units are coming out at all...

Is there something that needs to be done, before the cities can be effectively "barbarian" and produce barbarian units?

All the barb cities have barbarian units preplaced in them, but alas, still no barbarian production.

	28-12-2003 00:14									#2
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Is there at least one unit in the scenario that does not need any prereq tech to build that unit? If there are no "open to everyone" units then the barbs cannot build units.

	28-12-2003 00:57									#3
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Yes, there are two, spearmen and settlers. But even those barb cities producing spearmen won't produce them. The shield box simply isn't filling up.

	28-12-2003 01:38									#4
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Hmmmm... looks like its working now... gonna have to test it further. But the shields are coming up now... opened up civtweak and gave the barbs a bunch of money. Maybe thats got something to do with it.

	28-12-2003 01:57									#5
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In my experience cities in the begining of the games "list" may produce units when barbarian and cities at the end of it can't.
So cities that where founded early will produce units others won't acumulate shields even...

	28-12-2003 02:07									#6
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nope still not working... no shields in any barbarian city. Very strange. Apparently I could produce a shield growth in one game, and the next again I can't.

And no connection to city history that I can spot. There's no difference between early founded cities and later ones. Any other ideas, Henrik?

	28-12-2003 02:30									#7
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Strange, normally that's how it works for me atleast. Have you tried making all cities barbarian and have the scenario run a few turns? Usually they do produce units in atleast a few cities...

	28-12-2003 02:36									#8
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Once a certain number of barbarian units are on the map, barb cities no longer produce units. I forget the formula, but it's a pretty low number- 12 or 15, I think.

Anyway, you shouldn't expect barb cities to produce units. Use events, or make use of one of the barbarian activity levels if that's suitable. William Keenan's Barbarian Paper is very useful for that purpose: http://coc.apolyton.net/guides/barbarian_paper.shtml

	28-12-2003 03:09									#9
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thx, guys. I think its the number of barb units then. There's quite a few of them, and I need more still. Just gotta preplace them, then, so its not so much of a problem.

Does this mean there will be no random barbarians (raiding hordes or pirates), if the formula number is reached?

	28-12-2003 03:50									#10
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Mmm... i´ve never had problems with the barbarians in my iron curtain scenario. And believe me, there are rebels everywhere!!

For your info, 13 cities are in rebel hands + 60 barbarian units in the map. and the random barbarians (created with events commands) appear always... no problem.

Take a look:

Attachment: dibujo1.jpg
This has been downloaded 56 time(s).

	28-12-2003 03:54									#11
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These are the stats of the "rebel forces" unit:

Rebel Forces, no, 0, 2.,0, 7a,5d, 3h,2f, 3,0, 1, no, 000001001000010


And a city producing that unit:

Attachment: dibujo2.jpg
This has been downloaded 56 time(s).

	28-12-2003 03:54									#12
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Oh, they "produce", by which I mean they are set to produce stuff. But no shields appear, always zero. Still, I'm not sure if it means that these units aren't produced by them from time to time.
Perhaps the sollution is to set the cost of the unit to 0?

	28-12-2003 03:55									#13
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Anyway, i have no idea why it works!!!
I hope you can "discover" the answer...

	28-12-2003 03:56									#14
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I posted my post before yours, that's for the first part

	28-12-2003 04:00									#15
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Same city, turn 2:

Attachment: dibujo3.jpg
This has been downloaded 52 time(s).

	28-12-2003 04:04									#16
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The unit finally built:

Attachment: dibujo3.jpg
This has been downloaded 50 time(s).

	28-12-2003 04:42									#17
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Still have no clue whatsoever what is causing the no-shield build-up. I had no problems of the kind in the previous version of the scenario.

One strange thing, I noticed, however, is that the barb cities receive free irrigation and roads, without a settler in sight. So now I tried to give settlers a preq and see if this changes anything.

	28-12-2003 07:15									#18
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quote: Originally posted by academia Mmm... i´ve never had problems with the barbarians in my iron curtain scenario. And believe me, there are rebels everywhere!! For your info, 13 cities are in rebel hands + 60 barbarian units in the map.

In comparison, I have 59 cities in barbarian control in the new version of my scenario, with 119 barbarian units.

In an old (well-working) version of the scenario, there was just 26 barbarian cities, with 98 units. I begin to believe that I am nearing the limit, since no random barbarians appear, and barb cities cease to produce shields.

I'll probably have to get rid of some cities to balance things out, since I prefer fewer cities with more units, than too many, that are too easy to take.

	28-12-2003 07:17									#19
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Well, then that might be the problem. Too many barbarian units/cities in the map

Good luck solving the problem

	28-12-2003 15:40									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I had the exact same problem you have with the barb cities in my Blitzkrieg scenarios. I still don't know the sollution, but in my experience the cities started to finally produce units afer a couple of turns.