29-12-2003 13:04									#31
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I'm sorry. Do you want to talk about it? Perhaps having bad dreams can help you to understand yourself. If you continually have a bad dream, it may be a sign of a problem in you life, and the dream may give you some insights to solve it or at least understand it better. By controlling your dreams, you are blocking a view into your unconscious mind. A rare opportunity to view yourself from within. Otherwise, you are just using your brain as an ego masturbation aid.

	29-12-2003 13:05									#32
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exactly. thats why i'm trying to control it. :SMACK:

	29-12-2003 13:13									#33
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Oh, don't let me intrude then. :

	29-12-2003 13:32									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Wittlich Wait a minute!!! I can't believe that no other Apolytoners but Space and I have had/expreicenced a lucid dream before.... Could it be that we are just unique people? In another words: *Bump* Come on Apolytoners! Tell us about your lucid dreams and how you have or have not controlled them. For some reason, I cannot believe that we are minority in the abilty of controlling one's dreams.

I've lucid dreamed ever since I was very little. Although, it was very sporadic at first (one a year, or every two years) because I didn't know what it was. Then a five or six years ago I read an article about it, nothing detailed at all, and realized "hey, I guess that is a real thing", and then, just like that, I started lucid dreaming almost every night. Sometimes all it takes is to put the thought in your head and your brain takes care of the rest. And certainly I can induce them at will too now, most simply, by just thinking about lucid dreaming before I go to sleep.

They're all different, sometimes I don't bother to actually "control" the dream, but rather just remain conscious and let the dream take its course, while other times I will manipulate everything, including myself and my surroundings.

Yeah, I think all humans are capable of lucid dreaming, its just that the dream state isn't empphasized in our culture...we're whats called "monophasic". In other cultures, dreaming is seen as very meaningful and (I believe) in some, lucid dreaming is common.

In fact, my girlfriend had never lucid dreamed, and had never even heard of it until I told her about a couple of mine. And it wasn't like I told her how to do it or anything. And just like that, she's had 3 or 4 since then. Sometimes its just that simple.

I don't know about you two, but for me the "magic words" in my dreams are "I'm dreaming". It doesn't matter if I say it, if I read it, I hear it, but once those words come up, its like BAM!, I'm lucid. Although I don't necessarily need those words to become lucid, its just one of those things.

	29-12-2003 14:16									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Space05us I was { } that frickin' close to lucid dreaming, stupid ****ing self!!!!!! I read a few websites that give tips on how to get into a lucid dream state and the main one is to realise that you are in a dream by noticing something is how it shouldnt be like "forcing yourself to know that the pink elephant doesnt belong". And I did it, I forced myself to realise that I was in the house that I grew up in not in my current home, I dont know if I woke up or if I was in a lucid dream state for a few seconds but as soon as I noticed it my dream turned to black with grainy white outline to everything, and I was back in a normal state of dreaming. What makes it (worse/better/you be the judge) was that it was one of those dreams that Diss envies me for having so often. oh well hopefully I'll get the hang of it eventually.

Space:

It sounds like you got close, but don't worry, its all part of the process. Your brain probably just wasn't used to what it was experiencing, and so it jerked yourself awake. It will get used to it... like they say, you have to crawl before you can walk.

And seriously, don't bother with all the websites and all that bullshit. It can help, but its like doing a big long song and dance everytime before you turn on the TV, when you could just press the button to begin with and accomplish the same thing. The most helpful thing you can do to make yourself lucid dream is to just think about it, think about your dreams, don't necessarily interpret them, just think about them. Think about what it is to dream, and whats separates the dreaming state from the waking state. Talking to someone else about it can be even more helpful.

But hey, if you want a "guru" (in the sense of the word of just someone who's been there before) to help you through, or someone just to talk about it with, you can always PM me and I'll give you my e-mail address. I lucid dream, usually, about every other night, sometimes more, sometimes less, but always at the very least 3 or 4 per week. But I don't usually try to make myself lucid dream... if I did, I could probably do it multiple times per night, every night.

	29-12-2003 14:42									#37
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Hmm...I seem to have two problems with lucid dreaming. Three actually. In fact, quite a few:

1. I'm always aware that it's a dream, it's just I can't access my conscious memories. I don't know whats outside of a dream.

2. I seem to have troubles keeping a lucid dream. It always tends to slip into an astral project, which is ***nasty.

3. I rarely control the dream myself. I always do it through someone else, usually my cat though I once did it through god and one time I was being threaned by Osama bin Laden.

4. If I do control it myself...I quickly lose control but in a different way. Let me tell you one lucid dream I had:

I was in a room...It has modern asian architecture. Anyway, I looked around and said to myself "I am dreaming. This is not real." And then I realized I was indeed dreaming. So I began to redesign the room....However people kept appearing in there. I shut them out and I build a large stone wall around the room. I kept building but...I was losing control. I couldn't move the blocks properly. People kept appearing. Suddenly the "gates" burst and people were just flooding in there, and I was trying to get them to leave but they wouldn't! The dream ended.
It's very frustrating.

5. Too often an evil entity tries to subverge me. Let me tell you another dream:

I was in a mall looking for a decent pair of pants. The ones I had on I considered to look too "American" and I needed something different...Well this...thing kept following me around. His face was very blurred, and he kept asking me questions.
Suddenly...

ME: Am I dreaming?
IT: No.
ME: Yes I am.
IT: No you are not. Trust me on this one.
ME: If I'm dreaming....
IT:
ME: No, I am dreaming.
Suddenly I was transported to blackness....Everything was dark and this entity was right in front of me.

IT: There is so much knowledge you have not even begun to explore. Come with me....i will show you these things....
I was on the verge of accepting. The words "Yes! Take me!" were forming in my mouth and they were just about to penetrate my lips when suddenly thoughts of my wife entered my mind. Her face began to permiate the area, and I got very angry. I just boomed "NO! NEVER!" and I "woke up"...sorta. I heard this shatter coming from downstairs so I Looked and all was fine.

Another time I was at the edge of a cliff and there was this man and this woman. I sensed the man was very evil. I asked him if I was dreaming...

ME: Am I dreaming?
IT: Yes. You are.
ME: OK....
IT: You will never escape. I will haunt your dreams.
ME: No.

So I jumped off the cliff...And it jumped after me. I began to float back up and it spoke...

IT: Join me now, and I will spare you.
ME: No...You can't do anything to me. This is inside me, I can tell. In fact.....

I closed my eyes and began to think "I want another dream" and it happend. Everything around me disappeared and I was now falling through this...machine. It said "Configuring REM state.....Done." and I was in another dream I realized this however and decided to simply wake up. I did!

I'd like to be able to lucid dream. The times I've been able to control it were very nice. But I have troubles with keeping control and keeping nasties away from my soul.

[/Newage]

	29-12-2003 14:53									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar Hmm...I seem to have two problems with lucid dreaming. Three actually. In fact, quite a few: 1. I'm always aware that it's a dream, it's just I can't access my conscious memories. I don't know whats outside of a dream.

Then I would say you're not really lucid dreaming, at least not yet. I think, at least for me, one of the main characteristics of lucid dreaming is being pretty much the same person inside my dream as I am awake, with all my memories, etc...

But it sounds like you're on your way to having a lucid dream. Just don't get caught up in all the hype... it doesn't have to be in a cool place or doing cool things, you just have to be aware that you're dreaming. Its not some spaced out, tripped out kind of thing either, it seems very normal.

	29-12-2003 15:30									#39
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Well I'm very near to one. It's just that one barrier....I know what it feels like, sort of.

	29-12-2003 15:44									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar 4. If I do control it myself...I quickly lose control but in a different way. Let me tell you one lucid dream I had: I was in a room...It has modern asian architecture. Anyway, I looked around and said to myself "I am dreaming. This is not real." And then I realized I was indeed dreaming. So I began to redesign the room....However people kept appearing in there. I shut them out and I build a large stone wall around the room. I kept building but...I was losing control. I couldn't move the blocks properly. People kept appearing. Suddenly the "gates" burst and people were just flooding in there, and I was trying to get them to leave but they wouldn't! The dream ended.

I reckon you only have partial control over your dreams, because you are not really using all of your conscious mind.

	29-12-2003 22:51									#41
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I was thinking the same thing UR.

I just takes practice to get control of your lucid dream state.

	29-12-2003 23:06									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar Well I'm very near to one. It's just that one barrier....I know what it feels like, sort of.

Face it, Tass. Commies and traitors can never lucid dream.

	29-12-2003 23:07									#43
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quote: Why are geeks so obsessed with controlling dreams? Are their real lives that bad?

If I can take out my aggression while Im asleep, by doing whatever it is I feel like doing, then when Im awake I'll be at peace with myself and everything will be peachy.

	29-12-2003 23:10									#44
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lucid dreaming = out of body experience = bull kaka

	30-12-2003 00:23									#45
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FINALLY A topic I know something about!

I'm decent at such things, but I always have a simple problem in connecting my conscious mind to the entity in my dream.

More often than not, I've decided to punch someting in my dreams, or strangle it, or tear its guts out you know... but as soon as I stretch my arm out in the dream I tend to strech my arm out in reality - and promptly wake myself up.

Telekinesis and Clairintuition are present in all of my dreams. I can sense pretty much the whole world around me and I'm capable of changing it (but I tend to go with awareness since I like to explore my subconscious's new adventure)

Perhaps one of the most trippy things I've done:
I was asleep, dreaming merrily.
I woke up, and being still sleepy I returned to sleep.
I noticed that I was still receiving dream feed, but not through my main visual sense, through the clairintuitive sense earlier.
Now it starts to get interesting.
So I think to myself - okay, I wonder if my eyes can scope the real world while I keep dreaming.
So I consciously control myself - "KEEP DREAMING" - and also willed myseld to wake up.

It actually worked.
I was aware of the outside world AND the dream world both at once.
Unfortunately I became very confused, as I tried to teleport from my bed to the breakfast table and materialise my clothes (which I can do fine in a dream but not in the real world).
Trippy - and damn fun too!

---

I've had a tass-like dream before. I had an argument with an entity in my dream about whether or not I was dreaming.
Indeed I've experimented with antiselves in dreams.
The idea is to materialise another entity, like yourself, only autonomous.

Unfortunately I stuffed up once.
I imagined I was in a dream, busily hacking the matrix as you do. I was a part of said matrix. (Here the matrix would probably be my subconscious)
Then I thought to myself "I wonder if there are any other warriors hacking the matrix"
There appeared another entity.

The thing was, it was a lucid dream to both of us. We could -both- control the dream and indeed both hack the matrix.
So here we are. 2 Warriors each trying to control the environment and each-others' minds.
So the other guy was winning, and he booted me out of my conscious self.

Yes you heard right. I was booted from my own self-awareness.
I think I must have remained connected to my subconscious, because I 'reconnected' with my conscious self some time later, with a message in my head:
...Enigma_Alpha defeated. Link re-establishing...
I figure my anti-self must have decided to rejoin entities, because I had split in two to start the battle.

I can only wonder what would have happened if my Beta decided to boot my subconscious too, and left me in limbo while he controlled both my consciousness and my subconscious forever...
Of course I wouldn't do such a thing but it's an interesting what if.

	30-12-2003 00:29									#46
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Why would anyone want to control their dreams??? It spoils the surprise!

	30-12-2003 00:32									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka The only things that I can't continue are sexual dreams. It's weird, everytime I'm starting to wake up and I was just making out with a hot chick, and I try to continue, I seem unable to and them I'm 'damn it!'

I rarely choose that type of dream... I'd much rather talk to these other vectors of myself than have sex with them.
Sometimes I invent people so I can have self-discovering conversations.
Why search for the perfect woman when you can just imagine her up?

You don't actually need to be dreaming for stuff like this though - I get the sense from just imagining it to be real while I am conscious.
Difficulty is, in my memories of stuff like this I can't recall any 'sense data' from the outside world, but I know I can sense it.

Maybe it is a resting or dreamstate... since sirens can wake you while you're sleeping but you don't remember what your ears detect while you dream.

	30-12-2003 00:37									#48
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker There's another interesting and possibly related thing that happened to me recently. I couldn't sleep, and I was just thinking about thing in bed, to try and go to sleep. This continued for about six or seven hours (before I got sleep medicine and actually fell asleep), and I thrashed about a bit, getting tangled in the comforter, but I realized later that I'd almost been in a trance, and I'd actually rested about as much as I did sleeping. It was like an awake-dream.

Happens to me too, I can do the quiet consciousness thing.
I believe it's stage 1 sleep or possibly stage 2.
Deep sleep and dream sleep are different stages, but it's all still sleep.

(I wonder why my mind isn't burnt out since I use the thing when I'm awake AND when I'm sleeping)

	30-12-2003 00:50									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar Hmm...I seem to have two problems with lucid dreaming. 5. Too often an evil entity tries to subverge me. Let me tell you another dream: ME: Am I dreaming? IT: No. ME: Yes I am. IT: No you are not. Trust me on this one. ME: If I'm dreaming....*asked a question about my father* IT: *made up an answer* ME: No, I am dreaming. Suddenly I was transported to blackness....Everything was dark and this entity was right in front of me. IT: There is so much knowledge you have not even begun to explore. Come with me....i will show you these things.... I was on the verge of accepting. The words "Yes! Take me!" were forming in my mouth and they were just about to penetrate my lips when suddenly thoughts of my wife entered my mind. Her face began to permiate the area, and I got very angry. I just boomed "NO! NEVER!" and I "woke up"...sorta. I heard this shatter coming from downstairs so I Looked and all was fine. ME: Am I dreaming? IT: Yes. You are. ME: OK.... IT: You will never escape. I will haunt your dreams. ME: No. IT: Join me now, and I will spare you. ME: No...You can't do anything to me. This is inside me, I can tell. In fact.....

Ever tried combatting the entity?
Sounds like you have the self-combattant strain going on as well. Chances are that some part of your psyche also has a bit of control, and is trying to muck things up a bit.
My advice would be to talk to this entity. You can probably summon it forth right after the dream ends and talk it over.
Failing that just learn to take control and beat the crap out of it.

I'd try allying with the evil thing and trying to form a Tassadar / AntiTassadar Archon of sorts; When the light and dark sides of our energies are combined our power is undeniable eh?

	30-12-2003 01:04									#50
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I had something that might be described as a lucid dream once.

I was laying in bed on my stomach. I had fallen asleep for a couple of hours and was just starting to wake up. I opened my eyes for a split second and looked out the open bedroom door at the top of the staircase in my upstairs hallway. With my eyes shut again, for some unknown reason, I imagined a black cat on the top step. It was an angry cat and it stared at me with it's yellow eyes and began to slowly move towards me. I sensed myself moving on the bed, crawling on the bed towards the door. I felt like I had become the cat that I was observing. When I reached the edge of the bed, the cat by the stair leapt at me and at the same time I leapt at the cat and off the bed towards the door. I hit the floor hard, scraping my knee pretty good and jamming one of my fingers. My eyes opened wide on impact but I felt like I was still dreaming, looking for a sign of movement in the hallway, ready to pounce on anything that came through the door. After about 10 seconds, I realized what had happened and snapped out of it, feeling kind of silly. But I was amazed at how real it all seemed.

I always go to bed with the TV on now so that my mind doesn't wander like this...

	30-12-2003 01:08									#51
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Lucid dreaming My eight hours of omnipotence

You start by looking at your hands, and from there life gets better until you wake up .

	30-12-2003 01:52									#52
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quote: You start by looking at your hands, and from there life gets better until you wake up

	30-12-2003 02:01									#53
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so how do I get a lucid dream?

	30-12-2003 02:04									#54
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spray your brain with some polish before you go to sleep

	30-12-2003 02:17									#55
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tried that before, to no avail

	30-12-2003 02:20									#56
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Seriously, the first step is looking at your hands while dreaming. Then you have to log your dreams and after a couple of weeks of continued exercising of your power, you will lucid dream. It is an incredible experience I cannot really describe it, except it allows you to unleash more of your mental power than corporeal life allows. Fun doesn't really cover it.

	30-12-2003 04:41									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy Seriously, the first step is looking at your hands while dreaming. Then you have to log your dreams and after a couple of weeks of continued exercising of your power, you will lucid dream. It is an incredible experience I cannot really describe it, except it allows you to unleash more of your mental power than corporeal life allows. Fun doesn't really cover it.

But everyone is different, I never look at my hands, and I lucid dream everynight. And I've also never logged my dreams either.

But basically, what logging your dreams accomplishes is that it forces you to think about your dreams more, which can result in lucid dreaming. So why not cut to the chase, save some time, and just think about them?

Ecthelion:

Just think about your dreams, think about dreaming, and about what it would be like to lucid dream, and in time you will have one. Because, think about it... most of the time "normal" dreams are about things you've been thinking about or experienced in your everyday life, so if you include lucid dreaming into the things you think about, you'll dream about it, and at least for me, just the notion of dreaming or lucid dreaming in a dream will jettison me into a full fledged lucid dream.

And lucid dreaming is just scratching the surface... once your brain gets into that stuff, there's a whole other set of wierd experiences that can occur, both waking and asleep.

And I'm no newager by any means... I was raised conservative catholic, and while I'm not exactly catholic now, those things never really leave you.

	30-12-2003 04:57									#58
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quote: I reckon you only have partial control over your dreams, because you are not really using all of your conscious mind

But why do I know I'm still dreaming yet I'm losing control? And why in such a violent fashion?

quote: I just takes practice to get control of your lucid dream state.

But how? Plus...er....I once got quite obsessed with it, and thats when I met the entities. I don't like them.

quote: Face it, Tass. Commies and traitors can never lucid dream.

Ah, but I'm a commienazi. That makes things different.

quote: Why are geeks so obsessed with controlling dreams? Are their real lives that bad?

Yes.

quote: lucid dreaming = out of body experience

No.

quote: but as soon as I stretch my arm out in the dream I tend to strech my arm out in reality - and promptly wake myself up.

This indicates to me that perhaps you aren't dreaming but instead having an astral projection.

quote: I was aware of the outside world AND the dream world both at once.

Thus confirming my last statement.

quote: Why would anyone want to control their dreams??? It spoils the surprise!

Because its FUN?

quote: Ever tried combatting the entity?

No.

quote: I'd try allying with the evil thing and trying to form a Tassadar / AntiTassadar Archon of sorts;

Trust me, that would be a very VERY bad idea. Never ally yourself with evil entities.

	30-12-2003 05:06									#59
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Tass:

quote: But how? Plus...er....I once got quite obsessed with it, and thats when I met the entities. I don't like them.

Exactly, man. Get obsessed with it, think about it alot, and it will just happen. Just like when you got obsessed with it before and something strange happened. Just keep thinking about it. I'm serious man, I know everyone else here probably disagrees, but thats really all it takes.

Especially right as you're lying in bed, since, generally, what you think about right before you fall asleep is what you initially dream about anyways.

Edit: And don't give up because it scares you... being scared at first is quite common, from what I'm told. I can't really remember my first lucid dream, I was too young, but I'm sure it probably scared me too.

quote: Ah, but I'm a commienazi. That makes things different.

Point taken.

	30-12-2003 07:43									#60
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I don't think I really have lucid dreams, certainly not regularly. Most of my dreams which I remember (a minority of all my dreams) are ones in which I feel like I'm in control but in fact am not. It's hard to explain.

I think I've posted before about the dream where I got shot. It was not long after Columbine so I think it must have been on my mind. It was at my high school and someone just walked into study hall and opened fire. I took a bullet in the chest. Then I forced my eyes open and found myself lying in bed.