29-12-2003 11:37									#1
	Republic commerce bonus? Got spare money?

I'm 99% certain that Republic affords a +1 commerce bonus to any square already producing commerce, but oddly enough, I can't find any reference to this in the Civilopedia other than a vague reference in the Republic text that it "[produces] an increase in commerce". Hmm. I'm not sure I can trust my Civilopedia to deliver the straight dope...

Can anyone point me to a detailed breakdown of the effects of the various government types?

-Tom

	29-12-2003 13:11									#2
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Can't point you anywhere specifically but I seem to remember this too. I'm pretty sure it does.

	29-12-2003 13:15									#3
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I also noticed references in the Civilopedia to commerce and production bonuses for other govt types, but no specifics. Sigh.

-Tom

	29-12-2003 21:35									#4
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I can't remember all the details but Republic and Democracy both give an extra commerce in each tile already producing one.

	29-12-2003 22:20									#5
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TChick,

You are correct. (Republic -- like Democracy -- give +1 commerce to every square already producing at least 1 commerce.) There is nothing more to say.

USC

	30-12-2003 05:07									#6
	Re: Republic commerce bonus? Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by TChick I'm not sure I can trust my Civilopedia to deliver the straight dope...

You shouldn't! The civilopedia is wrong / incomplete / misleading on numerous fronts -- the editor is a much better source of reliable game mechanics information (though certainly not infalliable).

Catt

	30-12-2003 08:30									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

So then, is there any real difference between Republic and Democracy in terms of commerce bonus, or is it the same? I never notice any change in income when I move to Democracy, and like many players this means I almost always stay in Republic (even when I'm Religious) because of the WW problems with Democracy.

	30-12-2003 08:55									#8
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I don't know about the commerce bonus, but I think Democracy also gives you a shield bonus. At least that's what the Civilopedia implies without bothering to give any frickin' details.

Unit support is more expensive in Republic at 2gp/unit over the limit. And while Democracy has no inherent support, it only costs 1gp/unit. Without know what exactly the commerce and shield bonus is, it seems the main benefit for Democracy is the increased worker speed and minimal corruption.

-Tom

	30-12-2003 09:20									#9
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No, the difference is corruption and worker rate. Both are better under demo. However, demo has worse WW.

	30-12-2003 09:22									#10
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Democracy is SUPPOSED to reduce corruption, but in reality it's negligible. War weariness is more of a problem than Republic, BUT you do get a worker efficiency bonus. You only really notice the war weariness if you get into long wars...and if you're in long wars...what are you doing with Democracy?

Commerce bonus is the same with both governments.

Republic used to also be no inherent support and 1gpt per unit. The change is insteresting, but largely meaningless for me as the amount of free support + extra units cost just so happens to come to the same (roughly) as I'd be paying under the old system

Oh well

The only shield bonuses you get are for the industrious trait (perhaps what you've seen?) and that it doen't penalise you for having more than 2 of anything like Despotism does.

	30-12-2003 09:51									#11
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quote: The only shield bonuses you get are for the industrious trait (perhaps what you've seen?)

I'm just going by the infuriatingly vague Civilopedia, which includes the following in the entry for Democracy: "You are rewarded with increased commerce and production."

It's pretty annoying that it doesn't specify anything. "Increased production"? Increased from what? Increased how much?

-Tom

	30-12-2003 18:30									#12
	Inflate your Upload Space

Please, TChick, ignore the Civilopedia as a major form of documentation if you are looking for technical details. It is out of date.

AS Catt suggested above open up the editor and spend a few minutes there. Many of the mysteries of Civ3 are revealed there (and the numbers are the ones actually used in the game).

	30-12-2003 21:19									#13
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I've noticed with the time experienced to switching from despotism to republic, or despotism to monarchy, and then a second switch from monarchy to republic or vice-versa immediately after the first anarchy ( when playing as a religious civ ), generally at the beginning of the Middle Ages in my recent C3C games when I wanted to compare the viability of the 2 govs: republic does effectively gives the commerce bonus for each tile roaded and worked; but now at least the 1/3 of this additional income is wasted ( corruption ). Combined with the 2 gpt per unit, that means the republic is no longer viable for me - I need a strong military and monarchy is much more viable until the end of medieval. Under monarchy, I can regularly invest 80%-100% in science during medieval times instead of 10%-40% when in republic at the same stage of the game, because of the military support ( I'm even a bit more competitive under monarchy than republic with C3C ).

The expansion has forced many of us to change a lot of strategies, for my part I've came to appreciate the viability of monarchy ( I just can't win a civ3 game with the lesser military needed to a viable republic now ) and I agree with the changes they made. Republic was too powerful; now Democracy is justified. But bear in mind: a good deal of additional commerce from a representative gov is wasted in corruption. It's all about the personal gameplay style of each civer; for me it's despotism-monarchy-democracy-(communism if needed ), republic only viable by mid-game when reaching industrial and Demo almost available.....

	30-12-2003 22:25									#14
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IIRC, Democracy also gave a +1 bonus food production - I think this is the "production bonus" cited by the Civilopedia.

	30-12-2003 23:22									#15
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False. Look in the editor, if you want. The "bonus production" refers to the flag that both Republic and Democracy have, which gives +1 commerce on a tile already producing at least 1 commerce. The only difference between the two governments is WW, corruption, and worker rate.

What you are probably seeing is the effect of railroads - they give +1 food to irrigated tiles and +1 shield to mined tiles.

	31-12-2003 01:36									#16
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Never went to the editor; it scares me a lot. But I do remember the extra food production, on a manual, or perhaps a dream, or another Civ. Well, maybe it's another false memory they've put on me. B@$#*%&s!!

	31-12-2003 07:12									#17
	Got spare money?

Agricultural trait perhaps? (centre tile only afaik, and deserts)

	02-01-2004 05:09									#18
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I agree with master marcus that monarchy is now the strongest government in Civ3.

A good strategy is simply to beeline for monarchy, switch, acumulate money, and simply stay there for the rest of the game.

The republic is simply too expensive in terms of military and worker expenditure.

However a golden age in republic can be a powerful tool to gain a tech lead I have found.

	02-01-2004 12:32									#19
	Inflate your Upload Space

Tried that, in fact - did it for ages. But if you know how to do so, you can have your wars AND the extra commerce from republic. Of course, you have to make sure you have a BIG pop....loadsa towns just don't cut it