30-12-2003 21:48									#31
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I play for fun AND to win...however, if I'm playing multiplayer, I play to win...that's just my nature

	31-12-2003 16:23									#32
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I (understandably) prefer to win. But what good is the win if the game wasn't any fun to begin with? Even though winning is the only acceptable option in single player for me, multiplayer changes everything.

I play as a learning experience. And though you can learn through victory, defeat brings more lessons to mind. Though I aim to win, and I try to plan to win, losing to a worthy opponent who didn't have to resort to cheating/exploits to do it is just as satisfying. In fact my most satisfying game of AoM was actually a defeat.

	31-12-2003 22:43									#33
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I play to win funnly.

	31-12-2003 22:56									#34
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I'm a bit of a "sandbox" gamer at heart. I'm a perfectionist when it comes to my empire. I play on the highest level I feel I can still achieve most of my (pretty ridiculous) goals on. In the case of CivIII, this means Monarch. It also means that MP doesn't really appeal to me. The only MP games I'm in are demogames, where it's team vs. team - I have backup (or am the backup, more likely). I feel like playing a standard MP game would be too much stress - I'd want to play "perfectly" because I know I'm up against humans who are smart and will kill me if I screw up. Too much pressure... saps the enjoyment.

I'm not one who feels the need for a stiff challenge, like many of the other strategy forum guys. Occasionally I do, and so Emperor (or higher) is there if I want it. But generally I'm more into creating my perfect empire, or perfect city, or whatever. Tough competition would screw that up, no matter how good I got at the game (again, my goals are kinda ridiculous).

Civ is the game I'm probably the most competitive about - I actually cared about moving up in difficulty and improving my play. In other games, like Pirates or Railroad Tycoon, I just played. It's not that I ignored improving my game, it's just that it was less important to me than with Civ. Then again, Civ's my favorite.

-Arrian

	31-12-2003 23:57									#35
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I vote fun, because I would rather have a great game and lose, than play crappy and win. That is how I played all my sports. Go al out to win, but when it is done, I want to have had fun.
way back in my racket sports it was better to be beaten by a better player and played my best, than to beat an inferior player and played poorly.

A few great stories have been posted that sounded so exciting and the player lost in maybe a vote or something.

	01-01-2004 15:58									#36
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Lord azrael, vmxa:

quote: Originally posted by Zero Ok. you pointed out something good. Within people who play to win, there are two types of ppl. -Ones who play to win, and will only play when they can win. (Non comps who satisfy their egos/ self esteem) -Ones who play to win, and will try to win even when they have almost no hopes. (Competitive ones who challenge themselves) Sounds like to me, you play to win, but your the latter example.

I postyed this before and it also seems to apply to you. so basically u play to win.

	01-01-2004 17:28									#37
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I kinda play to win half the time, and half the time I just play for fun. You could say I define my own wins, sometimes winning is being the best, other times to act in the most chaotic way, or prehaps prolonging the game for as long as possible without having a hope of winning (ie hide the farm tatics in strategy games), sometimes I roleplay in a serious way. I enjoy being creative in any game, and being competitive really hampers that because winning mostly comes down to abusing imbalance - or doing the same thing as everyone else, but better.

One could define winning as "Getting what you want out of the game", sometimes all I really want in a game is to make the other playing think "What the? I've never seen anyone do THAT before". I'm not a competitive person, and the pressure from playing to win really does sap the enjoyment - as much as possible I try to avoid it.

In warcraft 3 with other players I will do anything, from playing deadly serious to win, to having a tree cutting blight-spreading nonsense competition with friends where the only goal is to do the whackiest things. I even engage in the exciting sport of backstabbing, ranging from pretending to have no mouse to outright backstabs to playing the best I can but studiously ignoring my teamates or even something completely random like building a grid of farms over as much of the map as possible - sometimes I have a change of heart and decide to win after all. I certainitely have no driving compulsion to see the "You have won" screen.

In some games there is far less scope for creativity or whackiness, like Chess or the Command and Conquer series. I happened to be unusually good at C&C Generals and played my way to near the top of the ladder, interestingly enough it was my losses I cherished more than my wins, for so few could beat me - wins were a dime a dozen, but a loss - that was really unsual! My most memorable C&C:G game was a loss.

To conclude this pointless rambling I think for me being creative and the learning of a game are more important than actually winning, altough I admit the odd powertrip is enjoyable.

	01-01-2004 18:47									#38
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I think a key distinction is SP/MP. People play SP for fun, and often play the game the way they want to to achieve that, even if it is not the optimal way to play.

MP can be played just for fun, with friends, but if you are still playing after a couple of weeks you usually take the game seriously enough to want to learn how to win.

	01-01-2004 20:04									#39
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When I play AoK with my friends I always win even when i'm alone and they're allied. Therefore they don't want to play the game anymore because I sort of spoil the game for them

Unfortunately I can only play with them (don't have a legal copy) so what I have to do is give them a chance. For example no attacking in the first half hour or something. It can be pretty exciting then if you handicap yourself...

or in an FPS when I play against noobs and I see they won't ever hit me, I just let them kill me a few times

	02-01-2004 12:47									#40
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So, you say you play to win. The question is: if you are playing to win, but not to have fun, whats the point? Games are FOR fun. If you don't have fun playing a game, why play it?

	02-01-2004 14:12									#41
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FUN. I learned how to do it while working at an LAN gaming center. I'd get so many newbies in there all the time, I'd have to limit myself, or try different things, to keep it interesting for me. ANd that trait has stuck.

	02-01-2004 14:42									#42
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I play for fun, but winning is part of the fun. In civ, for example, I don't get worked up if I lose, sometimes, since I was playing perfectionist small heaven, so I don't mind that.

	03-01-2004 00:17									#43
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quote: Originally posted by EternalSpearman So, you say you play to win. The question is: if you are playing to win, but not to have fun, whats the point? Games are FOR fun. If you don't have fun playing a game, why play it?

I play to win cause playing to win IS fun. Like many people who said they play to win said, if it wasnt fun to win, we wouldnt be playing in the first place. I enjoy competition and it wouldnt be fun for me (nor my opponent) if we werent playing to win. There would be no enjoyment in playing mind game agst each other trying to read ahead of each other moves and try to thwart his goal (which is to beat me)

NeOmega, how long would that last though? Playing agst inferior players isnt fun at all. I used to do that playing not seriously when I got too good compared to my friends around me... but it eventually gets boring (theres only so much fun you can have with no competition for me... even if i use one hand etc and try hard to even out things). I think the best solution is (if it is internet game) search for better comp online, (or if it isnt internet game and you're hardcore about it) search the area around you for better comp (thru forums etc). Otherwise games gona be eventually boring so fast.

	03-01-2004 08:23									#44
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Exactly. You play to win, because you have fun winning. So, isn't that pretty much the same as playing to have fun?

	03-01-2004 11:31									#45
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quote: Originally posted by EternalSpearman Exactly. You play to win, because you have fun winning. So, isn't that pretty much the same as playing to have fun?

No. Cause process of winning is fun for me.

Its not to say, I play games just for fun, but I mainly play games to win. And if game cannot provide me a sense of achievement thru winning (or getting me closer to winning agst players that are better than me) than i wont have fun.

	03-01-2004 12:29									#46
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Actually, that wasn't directed toward you in particular, Zero, just in general. But let me re-phrase that, the poll should be whether you play more light-heartedly or more competetively, because you obviously play games only for fun; the only purpose of games are to provide fun for their players. So, although you may play competetively, you still play for fun.

Just my game philosphy.

	04-01-2004 07:05									#47
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yeah pages ago i said poll should be rephrased.

	04-01-2004 07:27									#48
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I mostly play for fun. I've lost alot of the best games I've played.

	04-01-2004 07:45									#49
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I play for fun. But I'm a sore loser, and losing is often a frustrating experience for me. Hence, I don't play competitive games, and the only form of MP I know is LAN/Hotseat with friends of family. If I'm losing, at least I'm losing with jokes and good mood

(btw, that's why I love playing in cooperative mode)

	04-01-2004 13:49									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Zero Its not to say, I play games just for fun, but I mainly play games to win. And if game cannot provide me a sense of achievement thru winning (or getting me closer to winning agst players that are better than me) than i wont have fun.

So, does it mean that games you lost are not fun for you, regardless of other factors?

	04-01-2004 16:15									#51
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competeing is part of the fun. Winning is often nothing more than an icing on the cake. That said, there are games I enjoy taking it step by step, and building a nice clean civ, for example.

	05-01-2004 22:48									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger So, does it mean that games you lost are not fun for you, regardless of other factors?

Az answered it for me... I can achieve something while losing. I can get better, learn the aspect of the game, figure out what kind of strategy my ooponent employed, what i did wrong etc... I wont have fun if none of that was happening.

for example, ill just get bored of playing flip a coin, whether i win or lose consecutively...

	05-01-2004 23:23									#53
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I play to win. Ask Jamski

	05-01-2004 23:25									#54
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I find competitive play to be very stressful sometimes, and I can sometimes get way too focused on it, and take it way too seriously. I really stay away from competitive atmospheres these days. I saw uberkrux post something along the lines of "I haven't played counter-strike for months... then again, I haven't thrown my mouse at the wall for months either" a while ago - that's what I'm avoiding.

I still play alot of multiplayer, but with more emphasise on roleplaying or sportsmanship.

	05-01-2004 23:29									#55
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I know what you mean.........with MP I have phases.

Phase 1: Hmm, I miss game x
Phase 2: I'll just play a bit
Phase 3: Damn I'm losing
Phase 4: Play more!
Phase 5: Work and gf protest; game is taking up too much time anyway.
Phase 6: Give up
Phase 7: As Phase 1.

Rinse and repeat.

	06-01-2004 08:58									#56
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Depends on the game.

If it's civ, I prefer a co-operative effort just because I've never played MP.

When I play MtG with friends, I play for the game. I'll try to give them the best game I can, and see how things go from there. I put quite a bit of effort into my decks, and so do my friends, so we look forward to seeing how well the games go.

Most board games, I play to win. Something about rolling a dice brings that out in me.

	06-01-2004 19:52									#57
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I play computer games because its fun. That's the basic reason, really.

However, if I would play, play, and play even more and I wouldn't win against the computer then it wouldn't be fun... It would be enormously frustrating since part of the fun is overcoming the difficulties and improving your skill... Not progressing is irritating... But a game that you can beat easily every time you play it isn't fun either...

Civ 2 MP is fun regardless of whether I win or lose... Most games aren't finished anyway... I just like playing the game...

Carolus

	07-01-2004 01:28									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld I find competitive play to be very stressful sometimes, and I can sometimes get way too focused on it, and take it way too seriously. I really stay away from competitive atmospheres these days. I saw uberkrux post something along the lines of "I haven't played counter-strike for months... then again, I haven't thrown my mouse at the wall for months either" a while ago - that's what I'm avoiding.

Ya guys take games way too serious then... You can play competitively but you dont have to get pissed about losing..

me and my friends have had our share of throwing controllers out the window, but usually those matches were for betting on moneys and our souls (yes some of us owe our souls to each other.. long story )




You mentioned sportsmanship. Which made me wonder about another topic. (playing cheap/honor in games/sportmanship whatever) I made a seperate thread on discussing what it is to play cheap.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=105774

	07-01-2004 01:33									#59
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike I know what you mean.........with MP I have phases. Phase 1: Hmm, I miss game x Phase 2: I'll just play a bit Phase 3: Damn I'm losing Phase 4: Play more! Phase 5: Work and gf protest; game is taking up too much time anyway. Phase 6: Give up Phase 7: As Phase 1. Rinse and repeat.

lol tru tru

	07-01-2004 03:14									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Zero Ya guys take games way too serious then... You can play competitively but you dont have to get pissed about losing..

I'm not sure...........caring enough to play competitively usually means it can easily get to you if things go badly. To this day I use a keyboard with the 0 the = and the numpad 8 missing. I think the 0 and the = was when I lost a FFA Quake3 match by 1 frag (80-79 IIRC) to the one of the top players in Europe at the time. The numpad 8 was when I let myself get beaten by a lame human tower rush at WC3.

And I'm relatively calm.

I always refused to replace it since it's always the first line of attack. However I play less MP these days so I finally have a new one ready to use with my new system.