29-12-2003 18:39									#1
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What's people's general attitude here? This IS meant to be a DEMOCRACY game, not just all follow the chairman, or whatever Kody has calculated is the best idea. Maybe we want to vote AGAINST the best idea sometimes.

So are we in favour of :

a) Supporting the Pirates in some way, with troops, money, techs, maps, allance or whatever.
b) Supporting the CyCon in some way, with troops, money, techs, maps, allance or whatever.
c) Staying neutral completely, either doing nothing, or helping both sides as we see fit, to prolong or quicken the war.

-Jam

	29-12-2003 18:52									#2
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I think the first thing you need to get cleared up is what kind of relationship we're going to have with the cycon. Sure we can vote on this now, but people will probably want something different depending on what kind of relations with decide to have with the cycon.

*Still waiting for a decision to be made on the cycon relationship issue.*

We're currently running under the "Wait and See" relationship with the cycon after our last poll on the issue.

Last edited by Kody on 29-12-2003 at 19:15

	30-12-2003 00:05									#3
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I agree with Kody, we cannot act before we have more information. But I will not commit the Hive to a senseless war for the benefit of either PEACE or the CyCon just yet, if we go to war we go because there is something to gain, thus I prefer the stance to let them go at it.

	30-12-2003 01:12									#4
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As I stated in the Chairman's FOREIGN POLICY thread,

I think we should lend-lease the CyCon our units but still have enough left over to maintain our own protection. We shouldn't intervene unless it threatens our best interests. If we jump in prematurely and occupy our forces, we might find ourselves trying to bite off more than we can chew.

I am still thinking that the other factions have something planned and the Drones may have plans for conquest with us right in their path. Better to be safe and give them units on the sly than risk full vendetta.

	30-12-2003 01:13									#5
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Agreed, Chairman.

This war may play out to our advantage. If the Drones are true honorable pactmates (and THAT would be a shock to me), this vendetta could weaken BOTH factions and make them ripe for our forces to take the spoils.

	30-12-2003 01:50									#6
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One last thought/spam ( )


Even though the PEACE are at war against the CyCon, it could possibly a ruse. They technically are at war against each other, but neither can do any hostile action. Until someone makes a move, we should consider the possibility that this could be a trap and that they are looking to pull us into it.

.....just a possibility. Maybe it's just my skeptical, Hiverian upbringing

	30-12-2003 05:13									#7
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We should take A side, and then get the Drones involved too. We need to slow down the Drones somehow, as they are getting very BIG just to our west. We'll soon be sharing a bed with a tiger, unless we can flex OUR muscles too.

-Jam

	30-12-2003 12:20									#8
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Jamski, I 'd rather not motivate the Drones to build a military force just yet.
Or if we do, send them against Peace, CyCon, or Miriam.
We'll get Roze and the PUT.

I don't know why you're so skeptical about the drones...
Look, if they give us Missiles and Plasma we're fine. If they don't we're at war.

Kody, instead of giving CyCon Synth fuels, how about we give them a missile ship? That would work.

	30-12-2003 16:12									#9
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That could work I agree.

	30-12-2003 19:17									#10
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Then WE have to pay the prototype costs. Shame the Spartans aren't playing. I remember a PBEM where everyone gave techs to the Spartans, and got prototyped units in return. That was funny.

Looking at the poll, there's a clear majority support for the CyCon side in this scrap. And we can forget loving the Pirates

-Jam

	30-12-2003 22:21									#11
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Unless you're planning on waging Air war with 2-1-8 laser noodles then I reckon we'll be prototyping the cost anyway.

	30-12-2003 22:39									#12
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Dudes there's been a mishap.

As of last turn, The CyCon have declared vedetta upon us, and have offered a pact in trade.
We're in this one way or another now guys.
Apparently the CyCon either wants us to help... or declares war!

	31-12-2003 01:12									#13
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That's not right Enigma. We are pacted with the PEACE. When CC declared vedetta against PEACE, the AI will automatically enter us into a vedetta status with the CC. It is expected. Also we've been prepared to re-enter pact with them. Unless we have suddenly changed our mind again. Which is not unusual for the Hive I suppose.

	31-12-2003 02:51									#14
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The CyCon have informed me that this is deliberate.

Either we help them, or we help the Pirates. We don't get the chance to be neutral, they are forcing our hand. Either we help them or they Vendetta us.

-Jam

	31-12-2003 03:10									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski The CyCon have informed me that this is deliberate. Either we help them, or we help the Pirates. We don't get the chance to be neutral, they are forcing our hand. Either we help them or they Vendetta us. -Jam

If they so wish to try let them, the Hive will not respond to threats. In fact if they insist on that course of action we might as well help PEACE.

	31-12-2003 03:23									#16
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Voting indicates that NOONE is in favour of supporting PEACE, while a majority are in favour of helping the CyCon. Is this a democracy game, or Voltaire's dictatorship?

-Jam

	31-12-2003 03:26									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Voting indicates that NOONE is in favour of supporting PEACE, while a majority are in favour of helping the CyCon. Is this a democracy game, or Voltaire's dictatorship? -Jam

You have no clear majority in that thread, new information has arisen which might change public opinion, and furthermore you have no authority to actually run a poll on foreign policy matters. The Hive is divided on the issue and not all the active players have yet to vote, I hardly call it clear cut.

	31-12-2003 03:39									#18
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I call it clear cut that NOONE is in favour of the Pirates.

-Jam

	31-12-2003 04:17									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski I call it clear cut that NOONE is in favour of the Pirates. -Jam

Jam

I, the technologically challenged player have not yet been able to get the thread to accept my vote, but I am not leaning towards the CyCon. There are two main reasons:

First, what in it for us if we do support the CyCon rather than the Pirates (supporting them only so they do not beat up on us?);

Second, I don't like being given ultimatums.



Please see a copy of my prior post in a similair Thread:

What are the Pirates offering if we side with them?

Are the Cycon offering us anything if we join them? (other than becoming our enemy if we do not join them)

What are the Drones going to do to us whatever we do?

My situation awareness is not to good in this game, but the back of my neck is tingling. How prepared are we to take what we want from the Drones if they do not honor their commitments and give them to us.

If we do side with the Pirates they should give us a few good bases that they can protect until we are able to, build in place and deploy to them, decent military units that we can use to help defend those bases and the rest of their empire. By decent, I mean after we obtain Syn Fossil Fuels from the Drones, by trade as promised, or by Probe if they cheat us.

This may mean that the Pirates will have to trust us, but I do not think they have much of a choice.

Now, I do not mind siding with the Pirates. In fact I had not much considered it until the CyCon gave us that ultimatum. Friends don't do that to friends.


Mead

	31-12-2003 04:23									#20
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Thank you Mead, you have shown the plurality of the Hive, we are not all of one mind. I will second Mead's statement, and though I myself prefer neutrality, if it comes down to it that the CyCon do declare war on us if we do not act, then well I support taking the side of PEACE.

	31-12-2003 04:28									#21
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quote: What are the Pirates offering if we side with them?

Nothing, yet.

quote: Are the Cycon offering us anything if we join them? (other than becoming our enemy if we do not join them)

Possibly Impact and Cruiser tech.

quote: What are the Drones going to do to us whatever we do?

Nothing as usual, just sit and grow fat and strong...

quote: My situation awareness is not to good in this game, but the back of my neck is tingling. How prepared are we to take what we want from the Drones if they do not honor their commitments and give them to us.

The Drones will own us probably.

quote: If we do side with the Pirates they should give us a few good bases that they can protect until we are able to, build in place and deploy to them, decent military units that we can use to help defend those bases and the rest of their empire. By decent, I mean after we obtain Syn Fossil Fuels from the Drones, by trade as promised, or by Probe if they cheat us.

The Pirates won't give us bases. Forget it. Only if they're DESPERATE.

quote: This may mean that the Pirates will have to trust us, but I do not think they have much of a choice.

They have an alliance with the Uni, so yes they do have a choice

quote: Now, I do not mind siding with the Pirates. In fact I had not much considered it until the CyCon gave us that ultimatum. Friends don't do that to friends.

We shall see.

-Jam

	31-12-2003 04:30									#22
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Jam

Let me clarify my prior post.

I am leaning towards supporting the Pirates.


I might modify that vote if CyCon offers us some real good stuff in return for siding with them, and if the Pirates do not offer us anything.

So far, Cycon has offered us nothing but threats.

If we allow them to treat us like this before (when and if) they win their war against the Pirates, just imagine how they would expect to be able to treat us after they win.


Mead


PS
If we cave in to CyCon for nothing what does that tell everyone else about how they should treat us.

	31-12-2003 04:35									#23
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One thing that needs to be pointed out, though this thread may gauge public opinion, it is by no means binding since it is not official.

	31-12-2003 04:51									#24
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Sure. Only the SECRET FORUM is offical This thread is just spam to the mighty foursome.

It doesn't matter what we think Mead

BTW, the CyCon are sending all kinds of odd PMs right now. Let's wait and see if it really is a threat, or a mistake.

-Jam

	31-12-2003 04:55									#25
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Mead, your opinions are taken into account, be assured, we look at everything when making decisions (in fact because of this our decisions often are compromises between the extreme views in the Hive).

	31-12-2003 04:59									#26
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That's exactly what they told me. But do we ever see the secret forum?

NOPE!

-Jam

	31-12-2003 05:00									#27
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Well if you saw it, it wouldn't be secret now would it?

	31-12-2003 05:04									#28
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Isn't that what I want? Why the HELL do we have a secret quartet who control everything?

-Jam

	31-12-2003 05:06									#29
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Think of it not so much as secret, but as private, you don't very well allow an old Babushka from Vladivostok to attend Politburo meetings?

	31-12-2003 05:23									#30
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No, but we're not old Babuskas.

-Jam