29-12-2003 21:38									#1
	Golden Age Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Tell me about how you use Golden age within the game. I play on Emperor and above.

Do you have standard set of tasks you want to accomplish during Golden Age or does it depend on the situation?

Do you slide scientific expenses to max or min?

Do you focus on military buildup or infrastructure? Or do you use it to grab any wonders that are available? Is this when you build Forbidden Palace if you don't have it already?

I like to have as many cities as possible with aqueduct, marketplace, & library built before GA. I try to go for max growth during GA and I avoid building any new workers or settlers. I have workers focus on mining and roads. When GA comes, I make sure that each city with low corruption has the 3 improvements above built. If they do not, I will build them and hurry production on them when improvement cost gets < 200gp. If I have to hurry production like this I will set finances to 90%. After I have built everything according to this rule, then I will focus on military for remainder of GA and set slider to 90% scientific. I will try to grab a wonder if it is out there.

Ideally, I like an early to mid Medieval age GA. If you play a civ with an early UU this can be difficult. If you play on Emperor or above chances are you probably will not be able to trigger GA before Medieval with a wonder since only Scientific Great Leader can rush. The AI's production and research bonus will usually prevent this.

I had a situation like this in a recent Emperor game as Hittites. With AI's Wonder focus in Ancient age and their sci & prod bonus, I was getting shut out of every GW that could trigger GA. I also had no horses for my UU - three-man chariot. My one neighbor, Spain, had extra horses in their civ but they did not connect them by roads. Medieval Age was almost here and I was ready for my GA. My solution was to take a page from the AI's strategy book. There was an unclaimed horse on the other side of Spain. I sent a settler and a spearman into and through Spain making them angry. Eventually I got there, made a city and pop-rushed my UU. Started a war with Spain's other neighbor, Celts, and won a battle with the UU to start GA.

EDIT: I had written that Industrial was the time that I go for GA. My mistake. I meant to say Medieval.

Last edited by Brundlefly on 30-12-2003 at 00:00

	29-12-2003 23:35									#2
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my goals:

1. get the hell out of despotism. the penalities in despotism really hurt a golden age. republic or democracy is awesome for a golden age, but monarchy will work decently.

2. have it either at the early middle of the mideval age, or the beginning of industrial. i love a bunch of the mideval wonders, and if i can get the techs fast, and the shields out now, why not?

3. i hate buillding units in my golden age, unless i'm going for all out war anyway. sure, i may get 10 knights instead of 7 from a city, but i lose out in the long run. i usually try to stick to wonders / maketplaces / libraries. i usually go warmongering in the early game, and wait until the late ancient / early mideval to get my cities developed. this makes avoiding a GA with an early UU hard to do, and as a result i sometimes have golden ages earlier than i wanted them.

4. the sliders are based on situation. with scientific leaders though, i will usually set it to the max and take the lead, fingers crossed. although getting tons of gold is better sometimes.

	30-12-2003 00:15									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Uber KruX my goals: 1. get the hell out of despotism. the penalities in despotism really hurt a golden age. republic or democracy is awesome for a golden age, but monarchy will work decently.

I agree. I should have included that in my post. It is pointless to have your GA in Despotism.

quote: 2. have it either at the early middle of the mideval age, or the beginning of industrial. i love a bunch of the mideval wonders, and if i can get the techs fast, and the shields out now, why not?

I agree again. I meant to say Medieval, however in my original post I put Industrial. Should have had my coffee before I made this thread.

quote: 3. i hate buillding units in my golden age, unless i'm going for all out war anyway. sure, i may get 10 knights instead of 7 from a city, but i lose out in the long run. i usually try to stick to wonders / maketplaces / libraries. i usually go warmongering in the early game, and wait until the late ancient / early mideval to get my cities developed. this makes avoiding a GA with an early UU hard to do, and as a result i sometimes have golden ages earlier than i wanted them.

I can't get the hang of warmongering. Unless I'm in a position where I have to build up military, my focus is on rapid expansion in Ancient age. I build defensive units only. When I have reached the limits of expansion I build basic infrastructure (Aqueducts, Market, Library, Temple), and then I build up Military offense. I build Cathedral, Colliseum, Courthouse as needed. Rarely do I get any ancient wonders. Usually in early to mid Medieval I will go to war with my neighbor to expand a bit more.

Do you warmonger specifically to get GLs to rush small wonders/build armies or for expansion?

quote: 4. the sliders are based on situation. with scientific leaders though, i will usually set it to the max and take the lead, fingers crossed. although getting tons of gold is better sometimes.

Has this worked for you on Emperor and above? I am rarely the first to research a tech, so I never get SGLs. How many times do you have to be the first tech researcher to generate SGL?

	30-12-2003 00:17									#4
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I tend to try to start my golden ages in situations similar to Uber Krux if it's possible. However, unlike many people I will not hesitate to start a despotic golden age if that is what is necessary. I see GAs as very situational. Sometimes it is necessary to get an early golden age to even compete.

An example of this is an emperor game with Rome a while back (in PTW). I was in the center of the continent and surrounded on all four sides by other civs. I was quickly being outexpanded and losing the game. The English had already built three wonders including the Pyramids and Great Library and were seriously pressing me. I finally hooked up iron (it was a ways away from me) and upgraded several warriors to Legions. I proceeded to attack the English and started my GA. The GA provided me enough production to be able to continue sending units to the front and after some hard fought turns I finished off the English, took their three wonders for myself, and set up a second core in English lands. I won the game by Domination Victory primarily because I was able to finish off the English and take their wonders and their productive land. If I had waited for "optimal" GA (i.e. with more cities and improvements and to get out of despotism) then I would have been too far behind the others for it to matter.

Another example is a game I played as Persia and wrote a rather lengthy AAR in the strategy forum (the thread is called Immortal Storm). My core lands weren't overly productive and I used some Immortals to start my GA (again under despotism) to give me the ability to build a bunch of warriors (after pillaging my iron) and collect more gold to upgrade to Immortals and eventually give me the lands of the Carthaginians and Americans to make my empire productive.

Last edited by Rhothaerill on 30-12-2003 at 00:22

	30-12-2003 00:32									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Rhothaerill An example of this is an emperor game with Rome a while back (in PTW). I was in the center of the continent and surrounded on all four sides by other civs. I was quickly being outexpanded and losing the game.

What size world was this? Did you make expansion a priority and this still happened to you or were you focussing on something else and they closed in? I play on standard and sometimes large and I almost always have enough room to get a decent base of 6 - 10 cities before I reach the limits of expansion. I can't think of any way to play Emperor or above and win other than rapid expansion in early game.

	30-12-2003 00:52									#6
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The world size was standard, but the continent I was on was not overly large and had five civs on it. My starting land was not very conducive to REXing either. I only had three cities up before they started closing in and taking my city sites. The English had even taken a city site which was to be my third city before I got there.

When I started the war on England I only had six city sites and three of them were not very productive cities yet. I had no where else to expand to except for some jungle to the north and one more site to the west, neither of which would be very productive either. My choice was to either start a war and GA and try to take some of the productive lands of the English or sit back and watch them produce and roll over me. I chose the former.

	30-12-2003 01:37									#7
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Some early UU's are too good not to use, so you have to have a despotic GA. The benifits of using the units outweigh the later medieval GA.

I am talking about Gallic Swordsman and Mounted Horsemen for instance.

The GS is the best UU in game IMHO.

	30-12-2003 02:05									#8
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I'm quite impressed with the Sumerians for an early despotic GA. The trick is to get horses and not iron so you can horse rush your rivals whilst still building your UU. Enkidus are basically then half price spearmen and you can churn out lots of them, even in small or corrupt towns. This serves both to occupy your chosen victim's land and to increase the power of your military to encourage the other AI's to have second thoughts about attacking you until you are ready.

There are some civs and situations, as Rotheraill says, that make an early GA, used to pump out military and conquer, almost inevitable. IMO the Sumerians are such a civ.

	30-12-2003 02:17									#9
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quote: Originally posted by CerberusIV as Rotheraill says

Heh, no one can ever spell my name.

Anyway, later on today I will try to find some screenshots of my Roman game if I still have it on my computer (I don't remember if I do or not) to give a pictoral example of why it's sometimes necessary to have a despotic GA.

	30-12-2003 02:24									#10
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My GA's tend to be late ancient - late medieval. I hate despotic GAs, but I've accepted them once and a while.

I prefer to use the GA to build improvements and wonders, not units.

For me, the absolute perfect GA would require the following:

1) Republic
2) Palace + FP set up where I want 'em
3) High pop in core cities
4) In time to help me snag the major medieval wonders

Doesn't happen all that often, but when it does, it's beautiful.

-Arrian

	30-12-2003 03:23									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Rhothaerill Heh, no one can ever spell my name.

Sorry. People tend to spell my name wrong too.

	30-12-2003 03:29									#12
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quote: Originally posted by bfg9000 Do you warmonger specifically to get GLs to rush small wonders/build armies or for expansion?

i love the new armies. cant get enough of them, until the game stops me. i actually had to disband an army of swordsmen in my last game to make a new one of riders. very sad

quote: Originally posted by bfg9000 Has this worked for you on Emperor and above? I am rarely the first to research a tech, so I never get SGLs. How many times do you have to be the first tech researcher to generate SGL?

i play emperor regularly, and i'm usualy riding a tech lead well into the middle of the mideval age. i whore out techs left and right, while keeping certain ones to myself for purposes of keeping ahead. for example, if i'm the first to writing, i'll wait a bit before selling it, giving me a bit of a lead on philosophy.

in my last game i got 3 SGLs as China (NOT a scientific civ). i got one @ philosophy, one @ chivalry, and one @ astronomy.

but then again i played as the byzantines last game (a scientific civ) and only got one the whole game, even though i was leading the tech race for some time. i've seriously just chalked those SGLs up to almost pure randomness now.

	30-12-2003 03:29									#13
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quote: Originally posted by CerberusIV Sorry. People tend to spell my name wrong too.

what do you mean Searbearuz?

	30-12-2003 03:38									#14
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Despotic GA's and "Now get out of that!"

Monarch, random - looks like a pangaea with all 8 civs on it and nowhere else to go. No iron, a horse near Umma (southernmost city).

I want a city where Pompeii is and don't want war with Carthage so it looks like the Romans have to go. If I'm lucky the iron near Pisa is the only one they have and I can ally with the Inca against them. If I'm really lucky I will get to Monarchy and change before someone loses to an Enkidu and triggers my GA - but I doubt it.

Attachment: sumer.jpg
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	30-12-2003 04:57									#15
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Cerberus, stay out of war until you reach Monarchy. Unless you are being threatened by another civ, you can wait until the reduced corruption provided by Monarchy to start declaring war on others. I guess you plan to pop rush a Harbor in Pisae otherwise you have to go to war with Aztecs as well.

	30-12-2003 06:13									#16
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Speaking of GA's. I just got mine as I slid into the industrial age.
Playing Mayan on emperor, no wars up till then. Portuguese sent in a stack of 6 units (horse/pikes/MI) and I figure it was a sneak attack and a good time to get my GA. I just got Steam, so I triggered it with a Jav unit signed up France (only us three on this land mass). Hit an MGL in one of the fights and now I am in fat city.
GA triggered, new age, RR underway and a leader for my first army. I had save a few JT for just this occassion.