29-12-2003 23:45									#1
	Trading cities... Put an end to popups!

How come the AI never wants to trade cities???

After all, it is realistic.... The British traded a colony in India for the Louisbourg fortress with the French with I think it was the Treaty of Paris.....

When does the AI want to trade cities?

	29-12-2003 23:48									#2
	Increase the size of your Attachments

never. this was in the original game and was exploited far too often, so they removed it.

the AI simply can't assess the value of a city accurately.

	30-12-2003 04:17									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Only used as a peace negotiation demand when you or the AI have the upper hand.

	30-12-2003 05:41									#4
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They won't trade it, but you may be able to get them to give it to you for peace.

	30-12-2003 07:22									#5
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There's an interesting trick in extorting cities for peace: The ones that the AI civs WON'T give up surely have some kind of excellent resource, even if you can;t see it yet.

I also like extorting nearby cities to then give them to far-off AIs, so I can easily smack them around too.

	30-12-2003 13:15									#6
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you can demand them early on. If you have enough power, and demand an AI's city close to it's construction, they will give it to you without fuss. Cause your sorta powerful and the newly founded city is small, no culture etc. the AI will more freely give into your demands.

	30-12-2003 14:39									#7
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its wierd that the AI can't assess the value of a city. In SMAC you could do it and not so often that it would ruin the game.

	30-12-2003 22:35									#8
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I never got a good city from the AI, just some far-away colonies or a small starting village... Considering some of my wars, I received sometimes a lot of them at once!

	30-12-2003 23:06									#9
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After slapping them around quite a bit (usually takes seizing at least 3-4 cities), I can usually get at least a city or two. If I press on, I can get as many as 3. I rarely find them willing to give any more than 3, but I'm sure it's possible.

	31-12-2003 00:07									#10
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I can usually squeeze a couple of cities out of the AI in a treaty after a good city snatching blitz, and depending on the year, I often find that they are on little far away islands I did not know existed.

	31-12-2003 03:03									#11
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by TheArsenal I can usually squeeze a couple of cities out of the AI in a treaty after a good city snatching blitz, and depending on the year, I often find that they are on little far away islands I did not know existed.

The question is do you keep the far away island cities? Usually they are only one shield producing towns that never really do much for you. Do you keep them anyway? Just looking for what other players do in this situation.

	31-12-2003 04:02									#12
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Now I always keep the tiny islands even though they are not worth a lot to me. I keep them primarily because rebasing distance for aircraft has been restricted in C3C and I never know if I will need those holdings later in the game as part of a hop to get my bombers somewhere. I haven’t actually used them for that purpose yet – pre patch I’ve haven’t gone for land grabs requiring that scale war on other continents - but that’s the theory behind it.

	31-12-2003 21:19									#13
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well i play a huge map 362x362 and i have a couple of those cities that are completly useless and the game reached the city limit 512 so when i find a new good place to build a city i have some villages to disband and build my city while the ai can't even phantom such a move. You ask the ai to give you a city as a demand if you are stronger i got one from the french and romans this way the roman city was in the middle of my cities so it was bound to fall at some point due to culture and i asked many times ceasar to give bu no he wouldn't to bad he went to war with an ai and got his ass kicked i moved my armies around the city and asked again surpries he gave it to me this time. They french just gave the moment i asked

	31-12-2003 21:46									#14
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quote: Originally posted by aahz_capone its wierd that the AI can't assess the value of a city. In SMAC you could do it and not so often that it would ruin the game.

Are you kidding? It was INCREDIBLY easy to get good cities from the AI in SMAC.

	31-12-2003 22:07									#15
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Do the units inside the city become the property of the new owner of the city when it is traded?

	31-12-2003 23:15									#16
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They are relocated to the capital of the civ that owned it before.

	01-01-2004 00:06									#17
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That can be used a speedy relocation method once in a great while.

	10-01-2004 02:03									#18
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Those island/far off cities are good to keep for this reason. If you disband them, the land is free and someone else will settle it. If you keep it, build a temple only, you both deny the land to the other civs and the land mass total accrues to you for domination victories. If you have dom turned off but conquest on (like I play) it means you don't have to build or transport an invaision fleet later when teh new occupant of that land you abandoned gets in a fight with you (for what ever reason)

	10-01-2004 06:39									#19
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker Are you kidding? It was INCREDIBLY easy to get good cities from the AI in SMAC.

I aggree i used to trade the cities that were about to build a secrect project so i get it, then i send a prob team to get my city back or wait for the guy to declar war on me, I think in the entire CIV series the AI always goes to war with you no matter what. Anyway i prepare my drop hovertanks and drop them to defend my city with the project

	12-01-2004 20:18									#20
	Remove this text

I tend to give away island cities to get something worthwhile in exchange. As someone noted, they tend to be just 1 shield cities that add to your total above OCN.

I personally always have trouble holding islands. They are favorite AI attack points and you can never reinforce them quickly enough. Of course you can do the same thing. A neat trick is to empty the city, camp outside the border, give it to an AI, declare war and then quickly retake it. A few turns later sue for peace to pick up some gold, tech, resources, etc. As long as you don't lose any cities or too many units in the war, the AI will think it is losing and you'll get good terms.

	12-01-2004 21:42									#21
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quote: Originally posted by gunkulator I personally always have trouble holding islands. They are favorite AI attack points and you can never reinforce them quickly enough.

Gunkulator,

Just put enough units/workers in the Island City to occupy every square on the Island. The AI won't be able to attack your city (Unless it has Berzerks or Marines) because there's nowhere to 'land' the invasion force.

Perhaps this is a 'cheap exploit', but it will keep your Islands safe.


Steven

	12-01-2004 22:38									#22
	Increase Your PM Length

Just a very minor correction: all you need are enough units/ workers to cover every COASTAL square (at least until Berzerks, Marines or Paratroopers). You don't need to cover EVERY square.

	12-01-2004 23:49									#23
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Yeah, I've done the fill-every-coastal-square trick. It's kind of a cheat since the AI would never do it. However if the island has, say, 12 land tiles, that's 12 units tied up to hold a 1 shield city at a cost of either 12 gpt or 24 gpt (assuming republic in ptw or c3c). Add to that the cost to rush build and then maintain city improvements (harbor, temple, barracks) and it starts to get pricey.

	13-01-2004 00:33									#24
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Ah yes. I stand corrected, 'Coastal Tiles'.

It may be somewhat expensive, but you should have about that many Workers/Defenders on that island anyway (especially if there are Resources).

Don't think of it as '12-unit expense', think of it as the price of 'Island Defense'.

Steven

	13-01-2004 00:47									#25
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Depending on the terrain, island size and how well roaded your empire is, when you see the ship coming you can use a handful (four or so) of fast moving units to rotate and follow the vessel along the shore to block potential landing points. This obviously only works if the AI is only sending a vessel or two, and for whatever reason, you don’t actually feel like letting them start a war by striking first – which is the only reason I’ve seen an AI place units on one of my islands that were completely covered by my civ’s culture.