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Artifex is offline Artifex
Prince
Kentucky USA
Apr 2002
time: 05:32
  Old Post 30-12-2003 01:42
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Significant UU improvements I have noticed in C3C Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

1. The Gallic Swordsman now cost 40 shields instead of 50. Wow, just wow. Uber UU. Maybe best in game. This cost reduction is a MAJOR boost for an early UU with the power of the GS.

2. The Russian Cossack can now blitz and attack multiple times a turn. I can't remember it being able to do this before? Maybe I missed it since I never play the Russians.

3. French Musketeer is now 2-5-1 instead of 3-4-1.

4. The Mongol Keshik now treats hills and mountains as grassland for movement, used to be just mountians.

Those are the main 4 I can remember of the top of my head.

Last edited by Artifex on 30-12-2003 at 02:09

CerberusIV is offline CerberusIV
King

Oct 2002
time: 05:32
  Old Post 30-12-2003 01:58 Visit CerberusIV's homepage!
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Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

AFAIK the other UU they bumped was the Man-O-War which now has the enslave ability and can produce more of the same.

I think there is also a change in the AI regarding UU's. In games as the Dutch (Swiss Mercs) and the Sumerians (Enkidus) the AI's seemed very reluctant to attack my UU's and trigger my GA. Once my GA was underway this reluctance to attack these units disappeared.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:32
  Old Post 30-12-2003 02:04
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The Musketeer was 3-4-1

Inverse Icarus is offline Inverse Icarus
Emperor
flying too low to the ground
May 2001
time: 00:32
  Old Post 30-12-2003 02:06 Visit Inverse Icarus's homepage!
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buffs.

MUSKETEER CASTS BLOODLUST!

thesilentone is offline thesilentone
Settler
UK
Jul 2001
time: 05:32
  Old Post 30-12-2003 07:21
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Musketeer also has defensive bombard now.

Inverse Icarus is offline Inverse Icarus
Emperor
flying too low to the ground
May 2001
time: 00:32
  Old Post 30-12-2003 08:32 Visit Inverse Icarus's homepage!
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MAGIC ARROW! MAGIC ARROW!

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:32
  Old Post 30-12-2003 08:37
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quote:
Originally posted by sw99
Musketeer also has defensive bombard now.


It does?

Anun Ik Oba is offline Anun Ik Oba
Emperor
Grace of God
Sep 1999
time: 00:32
  Old Post 30-12-2003 08:56
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Very nice changes all around.

UnityScoutChopper is offline UnityScoutChopper
Warlord
Brno, Czech Republic
Oct 2000
time: 06:32
  Old Post 30-12-2003 17:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Uber KruX
MAGIC ARROW! MAGIC ARROW!


I TAP MY SNOW-CAPPED FAIRY RINGS AND CAST GIANT GROWTH!

USC

Louis XXIV is offline Louis XXIV
Prince
I left my heart in Zarigueya
Mar 2003
time: 00:32
  Old Post 31-12-2003 05:34
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Suffering from ads?

The Jaguar Warrior now costs 15 shields. I remember hearing (but never checked to verify) that the Galic Sword now upgrades to Knights.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
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  Old Post 31-12-2003 05:52
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Gallic Swordsman still upgrades to Medieval Infantry (well, actually to Legionary).

Xorbon is offline Xorbon
Prince
Guelph, ON
Jul 2003
time: 00:32
  Old Post 31-12-2003 09:01
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A bunch of (formerly underpowered) units were improved in C3C. India's War Elephants have gained +1 hp; Korea's Hwach'a has been given lethal bombard (while bombardment strength has been reduced to 8); Babylon's Bowmen have been given defensive bombard; and America's F-15 has been improved along with all the other air units.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 31-12-2003 09:04
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quote:
Babylon's Bowmen have been given defensive bombard;


As were Archers and Longbowmen.

quote:
and America's F-15 has been improved along with all the other air units.


Meh. It was given lethal land bombard (a significant improvement over Jet Fighters), and its bombard was upped, but its defense was downed.

Now, if they disallowed all planes except Fighters, Jet Fighters, and F-15's from rebasing to Carriers... that would make the F-15 insanely cool. The Americans would be vastly better at projecting power overseas.

Cerbykins is offline Cerbykins
Warlord

Dec 2003
time: 05:32
  Old Post 31-12-2003 09:12
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Hwach'a always had lethal bombard afaik (the first unit to be so, in PTW), but the war elephants are news to me!
After having seen mills in one scenario and hearing this now, it makes me wonder if Firaxis are secretly DYP fans

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 31-12-2003 09:20
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No, Hwach'a lethal bombard was new. They said it was going to in PtW, but took it out because it was insanely powerful.

Brundlefly is offline Brundlefly
Prince
United States
Nov 2001
time: 00:32
  Old Post 06-01-2004 00:35
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catapult can bombard naval units from land positions

SirOsis is offline SirOsis
King
Oregon
Nov 2001
time: 21:32
  Old Post 06-01-2004 02:25
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quote:
Originally posted by bfg9000
catapult can bombard naval units from land positions


This is true in PTW also.

LordVipper is offline LordVipper
Chieftain

Sep 2003
time: 05:32
  Old Post 06-01-2004 07:19 Visit LordVipper's homepage!
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I am 90% sure that Hwach'a had lethal bombardment in ptw...

Xorbon is offline Xorbon
Prince
Guelph, ON
Jul 2003
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  Old Post 06-01-2004 09:37
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The Hwach'a just got lethal bombing in Conquests. In PTW, it had a bombard strength of 12 and no lethal bombard. Now, it has a strength of 8 (same as the cannon) and has lethal bombardment. I'm 100% sure of this.

In PTW, Korea was the only civ whose unit could NOT trigger a golden age. I remember this because I had to mod the game to give the Hwach'a lethal land bombard so it could trigger GA's.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 06-01-2004 09:50
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quote:
Originally posted by LordVipper
I am 90% sure that Hwach'a had lethal bombardment in ptw...


and 100% wrong

just to be sure, I even checked the PtW rules file.

joncha is offline joncha
Emperor
North of FOPOG
Jan 2003
time: 21:32
  Old Post 06-01-2004 09:57
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Yeah, that one really ticked me off when I found out mid-game...

Serves me right for believing the "meet the civs" write-up on the Civ3 website.

jon.

Switch is offline Switch
Prince
This just in, water has been discovered on Mars...
Apr 2002
time: 00:32
  Old Post 06-01-2004 10:25 Visit Switch's homepage!
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Speaking of UUs, have they balanced (or has it always been balanced) the hoplites and Numidian mercs? I never really played those civs together to compare, but can anyone else give an opinion? Personally, it APPEARS that Carthage's UU is overpowered compared to the Greek's.

vmxa1 is offline vmxa1
Deity
Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:32
  Old Post 06-01-2004 10:30
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quote:
Originally posted by SirOsis


This is true in PTW also.


I think it was always true , even in CivIII. As long as the distance was one tile.

bongo is offline bongo

Emperor
TRBNGR
Sep 1999
time: 06:32
  Old Post 07-01-2004 02:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Switch
Speaking of UUs, have they balanced (or has it always been balanced) the hoplites and Numidian mercs? I never really played those civs together to compare, but can anyone else give an opinion? Personally, it APPEARS that Carthage's UU is overpowered compared to the Greek's.

Not if you're talking PTW, Num.mercs are 50% more expensive and gives you an extra attack point you'll never use, except for that first attack to trigger your GA.

Num.Merc, price 30s, stat=2.3.1
Hoplite, price 20s,stat 1.3.1


Have to admit that I still like the num.mercs, just that I think it is a bit overpriced.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 07-01-2004 04:09
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The attack point is worth a lot less than the extra ten shields.

Xorbon is offline Xorbon
Prince
Guelph, ON
Jul 2003
time: 00:32
  Old Post 07-01-2004 05:46
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Hoplite vs. Numidian Mercenary Remove this text

With people arguing on either side of the fence, maybe they're more balanced than one might think. There's give and take with both. For instance, the Numidian merc. is more expensive, but it can more easily trigger a GA offensively than a hoplite.

Fried-Psychotron (sp? ) gave an interesting review of PTW UU's quite a few months ago.

MrWhereItsAt is offline MrWhereItsAt
Emperor
New Year's Resolution: 2005 is the year of Where It's At - come get some.
Nov 2001
time: 17:32
  Old Post 07-01-2004 13:17
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Re: Significant UU improvements I have noticed in C3C Increase the size of your Attachments

quote:
Originally posted by Artifex
1. The Gallic Swordsman now cost 40 shields instead of 50. Wow, just wow. Uber UU. Maybe best in game. This cost reduction is a MAJOR boost for an early UU with the power of the GS.

2. The Russian Cossack can now blitz and attack multiple times a turn. I can't remember it being able to do this before? Maybe I missed it since I never play the Russians.

3. French Musketeer is now 2-5-1 instead of 3-4-1.

4. The Mongol Keshik now treats hills and mountains as grassland for movement, used to be just mountians.

Those are the main 4 I can remember of the top of my head.


Fantastic changes - especially the lethal bnombard for the H'wacha and the much-needed Cossack improvement. Wih PtW Sipahi jus took the wind right out of the Russians' sails. And a defense 5 unit? Actually useful for a change!

CerberusIV is offline CerberusIV
King

Oct 2002
time: 05:32
  Old Post 07-01-2004 14:36 Visit CerberusIV's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by bongo

Not if you're talking PTW, Num.mercs are 50% more expensive and gives you an extra attack point you'll never use, except for that first attack to trigger your GA.

Num.Merc, price 30s, stat=2.3.1
Hoplite, price 20s,stat 1.3.1


Have to admit that I still like the num.mercs, just that I think it is a bit overpriced.


The other advantage of Num Mercs is that they make your forces look strong to the F3 advisor and the AI's so it acts as a deterrent to AI attacks if you want some peace and quiet.

That's the reason Carthage doesn't usually need to build musketmen.

The downside in C3C is that industrious workers aren't as good as PTW. In PTW it was quicker to get the first few tiles mined and your cities shields outputs up.

Brundlefly is offline Brundlefly
Prince
United States
Nov 2001
time: 00:32
  Old Post 07-01-2004 19:05
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Musketeer defense value of 5 is too strong for the age that it appears. They should have left Musketeer/Musketman stats alone in c3c.

bongo is offline bongo

Emperor
TRBNGR
Sep 1999
time: 06:32
  Old Post 07-01-2004 19:28
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I haven't tried it yet, but I think it is a good change. That extra attack point it used to have were close to useless. Much better with extra defence, after all, UUs are supposed to be stronger than their 'normal' brethrens

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