31-12-2003 17:11									#1
	Non-foil transports Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

These look like they could be fun, but has anyone seen them to be of any use?

	31-12-2003 19:28									#2
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Cruiser transports: Of course! +2 movement points!
Land unit transports: They are cheap and can be used to allow other units to move to and from sea bases that border a coast. You can also give them the drop ability and after you have orbital insertion you can transport a bunch of non-drop units over the entire world. One other SMAC veteran (Ogie, Sikander, can't recall) also has regularly advocated them for use in war (gives the units in the transport one extra movement point in a way) or terraformation (formers can move around faster).

	31-12-2003 20:26									#3
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That would be me.

I advocate land transports tho' for more than just war.

They serve inavaluably in allowing a trucking corps to allow peace time activities as well.

Want to move that crawler to a base and you want to upgrade it and cash it in all on the same turn thereby scooping a faction and getting an all important SP. Use land transports.

Want to allow your fleet of formers to move into a square and build a road thereby allowing the rest of your fleet of formers into build a borehole. Use a land transport.

Want to move a colony pod and set it in the same turn. Use a land transport.

It only takes a few no more than 2-3 in your empire to help you in both war and peace time.

War time use allows builds of el cheapo best weapon- 1-1's to be brought right up to a base door step.

OOh and by the wway once mag tubes are built the land transport is invaluable in removing otherwise exposed units back to rearward bases.

	31-12-2003 22:39									#4
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Oh yeah! Land-trannies are awesome!

I'm not only the Land-tranny Club president, I'm also a client.

	01-01-2004 00:21									#5
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I've made these!

Sea-based: My Planet-Buster Subs! While these are EXTREMELY expensive, due to the resources of the PB's, they are heck of a lot of fun to play. The only junk thing is that if you have a fully loaded sub stocked with busters and it's attacked, its dead. But I just love the idea of parking my sub at the coast of my enemy, then launching my nukes.

Land-based: I've tried experimenting with this, but haven't had much success. I usually just wait until mag-tubes and that is sufficient for me.

Air-based: Holy crap, THAT was a disaster.

	01-01-2004 01:18									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Anun Ik Oba Oh yeah! Land-trannies are awesome! I'm not only the Land-tranny Club president, I'm also a client.

Uh, in the world outside these forums, tranny is short for transvestite, not transport.

	01-01-2004 04:14									#7
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yeah but any decent human player is going to be monitoring your activity, unless you have some thing secret to tell us.

	01-01-2004 05:47									#8
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I only use foil transports and later cruiser transports. Gravships and planet busters remain my favorite tools of statecraft.

	01-01-2004 06:16									#9
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the only non-sea transports i'll use are infantry ones in sea bases for ease of movement. I tend not to use them for actual 'transportation' simply because they have such a low transport capacity and movement penalty (they do have a movement penalty, right?) that it's usually easier just to walk there

	01-01-2004 07:59									#10
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Wow. So many replies in such a short time.

What about putting an infantry in a rover transport. Rover speed with +25% vs base? Does it work, or is it too expensive?

	01-01-2004 11:15									#11
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quote: Originally posted by CEO Aaron Uh, in the world outside these forums, tranny is short for transvestite, not transport.

Theres... an Outside?!?

Why?!! Why was I never told!?!? My life?!?! Wasted here!!! (And actually, its short for Transexual... but that's debatable.)

	01-01-2004 12:42									#12
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I wonder if it is possible to load a transport into another transport.
If you could get enough capacity, you could have a rover chain spontaneously appear!

	01-01-2004 14:24									#13
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I don't see why not. The usefulness is limited because the cargo of a nonfoil, noncruiser transport is always 1.

A chain of transports could be used to quickly lockdown an area.

An impact infantry with no armor could be backed up with a rover transport with good armor. Wouldn't it also doublestack the square, preventing probing?

Things that could be fun:

Ground transport + Repair bay = Medic.
Ground transport + Carrier deck = Mobile airbase.
Ground transport + Cloaking = Fun (Wonder if you could fit a probe team in one of these)

But if you can get enough that all your attack force can hide in ground transports, then they will never know what nasty thing will come out of the boxes all around his base.

Needlejet/Chopper/Gravship transports can only load/unload at an airbase (I think), but can be almost as good as psi gates.

	01-01-2004 18:05									#14
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unless he moves next to them and right clicks on the transport to see whats in them .... the units should survive if the transport is attacked though right ?

	01-01-2004 21:22									#15
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I think the transport is designated as the defender and all cargo is lost.
In othe words you'll have an arse of a time unloading all your units at end turn then reloading them.

BTW apparently Rover transports get only 1 movement point...
Well it's still good to make a Defence Transport and load it with a high attack rover.
Let the transport take the hit while the rover runs stuff over.

	01-01-2004 22:56									#16
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I belive all transports have -1 movment (or just 1 if its infantry). So Rovers have 1, Foils 3, HoverTanks 2, Cruisers 5.

	02-01-2004 00:34									#17
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Repair bay is actually quite useless - it repairs to slow for me.

	02-01-2004 00:54									#18
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I thought that special ability didn't function at all. Probably the repairing you see is just what would happen even if you didn't have a repair bay.

	02-01-2004 00:58									#19
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What are you talking? it worked in SMAC when I last used. It is bad because it fixes about 10 percent per turn and the transport has to move or it doesn`t work.

	02-01-2004 01:03									#20
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quote: the transport has to move or it doesn`t work

Now that's a tidbit I've never seen before.

	02-01-2004 10:41									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Enigma_Nova I think the transport is designated as the defender and all cargo is lost.

Nope, on land cargo survives albeit with damage. On the high seas cargo drowns.

To others points, Yes land transports make the stack probe proof.

A point worth mentioning that prolly isn't apparent initially. Units can be transported after they have taken all there actions. For example, a 6-1-1 is on a road square 2 squares from a enemy base. A infantry transport (no need for rover transport as other point out yields same amount of movement and is significantly more expensive) transports the 6-1-1 to an attack position. 6-1-1 unloads, attakcs, wins combat but is now vulnerable to counter attack. Reactiviate said 6-1-1 hit L and have 6-1-1 retreat 2 squares.

Next turn 6-1-1 can be transported back to a base via transport (assuming/supposing a friendly base is on the road within 3 squares) and heal a turn earlier as it took no action in the second turn.

	02-01-2004 10:45									#22
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quote: Originally posted by #endgame Needlejet/Chopper/Gravship transports can only load/unload at an airbase (I think), but can be almost as good as psi gates.

Not so, you can force an unload while in air. (can't recall right now the exact method. It's either the keyboard shortcut or the mouse menu)

These airborne transports are mostly useless for conventional forces as they carry but one unit. Most prefer drop enabled units instead. However they are extrememly useful to insert probes. As use of them allows a work around for air defenses that would otherwise prevent an insertion.

	02-01-2004 18:01									#23
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units within a transport repair themselves 10% each turn don't they ? since they count as stationary just like if you held for a turn on land

	03-01-2004 23:38									#24
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Nope I say - they are counted loaded and they don`t repair unless the transport has repair hull. But they do repair if loaded on transport in a base.

	05-01-2004 11:37									#25
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Forcing unload of an air transport:

Right click on the transport when its flasing as though you were about to move it.
Choose 'Action...'
There is an unload button there.
Haven't tried the shortcut key for that, which is Shift+U.

Its limited in usefulness because flying transports have a move of 4.

Just for fun:
Transport and moves
Infantry/Rover: 1
Hovertank: 2
Needlejet/Chopper/Gravship: 4
Foil: 3
Cruiser: 5

Not sure about the ship ones though.

	06-01-2004 10:37									#26
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quote: Originally posted by #endgame Forcing unload of an air transport: Right click on the transport when its flasing as though you were about to move it. Choose 'Action...' There is an unload button there. Haven't tried the shortcut key for that, which is Shift+U. Its limited in usefulness because flying transports have a move of 4. Just for fun: Transport and moves Infantry/Rover: 1 Hovertank: 2 Needlejet/Chopper/Gravship: 4 Foil: 3 Cruiser: 5 Not sure about the ship ones though.

A slight addendum to your notes. Air chassis do indeed normally yield but 4 squares, however

fusion adds a move, quantum yet another, singularity yet another
elite adds a move &
IIRC CBA adds 2 moves.

So for grins and giggles say you are building elites have fusion technology and the CBA. Couple this with an elite rover PT unloaded on a road and your effective range is more like 16 squares. More importantly the 8 squares normally is more than enough to bridge a water obstacle thereby allowing insertion of PT's into hinter land bases and whats more than is virtually no stopping the insertion.

I'ld say that's pretty useful.


Additionally the preferred chassis is the chopper. Although unlikely that it will be undetected and remain unattacked. If it does sneak in under the radar you have 4 moves worth of 8 (well 3 at 8 and1 at 7) prior to the chopper biting the dust. Thats 31 squares by air and 8 by roaded land (leaving a 1/3 move left for probe action). Granted your suiciding the chopper but such is the fortunes of war.

	06-01-2004 17:36									#27
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A unit I have been putting into some of the PBEM's I design are a "Scud Launcher". Put into dormancy during setup, essentially its a strategically placed mobile airbase that the AI will use. I find that this is better than simply placing an airbase in a square, as anyone can land at an undefended airbase (i.e. I am keeping the strategic air advantage provided by the Scud Launcher soully in the hands of the AI).


D

	06-01-2004 19:20									#28
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Is this in the ACPSG?
I dread to think of a Truck Nuke launcher.

	07-01-2004 01:22									#29
	I am kind of fond of these alternative transports, but ... Support Apolyton

As has been mostly said already, they have limitations, some reasonable and some that might have been unintentional (the word bugs comes to mind). Some aspects, such as the unloading of air transports enroute, are sometimes controversal and other aspects, such as finding a logical rationale/justification for the land transport gambit are illusive. Nevertheless, they are intriguing and sometimes useful, in a niche sort of way, especially once they can be built 'Clean'.

Personally, I find the drop transports to be the most useful, but I also sometimes build the others, mostly a token air transport, but sometimes the land transport (despite my philosophical difficulties imagining that there would be any time left in ones turn for regular unit movement after using up a full turn of movement driving around in some sort of lumbering house-mover carrying a load of tanks).

	07-01-2004 02:28									#30
	Re: I am kind of fond of these alternative transports, but ... Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by johndmuller and other aspects, such as finding a logical rationale/justification for the land transport gambit are illusive. Nevertheless, they are intriguing and sometimes useful, in a niche sort of way, especially once they can be built 'Clean'.

Apparently I haven't made my arguements re:the benefits clear enough or often enough.

All I can say is try building a few of of these say 3-4 of them andsee how they aid your peacetime as well as war time efforts.