31-12-2003 17:37									#1
	Saltpeter is soooooooo very important! Put an end to popups!

I have been playing a game and i hav just researched gunpowder i tryed to build musketeers and realised i had no saltpeter i looked and had no on the continent !( : the AI had lots of cites on hills and i was wondering does any1 no how to check if thealtpeter is under the cites . see i got maps of the other AI and havent got contact with them yet so i cant check by chatting to them!

	31-12-2003 17:46									#2
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Game options -> Map -> Clean map

I exhausted my source of Saltpeter- can't build Cannon, Musketeers or Cavalry. All my pikemen were upgraded before it went poof, luckily. Brennus is siting on at least 3 saltpeters, but he hasn't got Gunpowder, but he may be close - should I just give it to him?

	31-12-2003 18:14									#3
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Or the key combo is CTRL-SHIFT-M to clear cities/improvements/units from the map.

	31-12-2003 21:16									#4
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Yes salpetter is very important, but oil is crucial.

	31-12-2003 21:20									#5
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It would be nice if it were possible to buy resources from civs that haven't got the relevant techs. I once had a game where I needed rubber and someone had it, but they were desperately behind in tech. I tried *giving* them all the tech they needed to have it appear on their map, but still couldn't trade - I think they promptly sold it to someone else. The only option in such a case is to invade. It would be nice if you could say something like "I see you have this black sticky stuff oozing out of your country. Shall I take it off your hands?" - in other words, if you have the tech and you know it's on their territory, and they don't have the tech, you can buy it off them for a reduced price. This would remove a need for aggressive play.

	31-12-2003 21:38									#6
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I'd say Saltpeter is one of the LESS important strategic resources. Yes, it's necessary for Muskets and Cavs, but something like Iron or Oil has FAR more units that need it. Horses - meh. I'd say Uranium and maybe Aluminum are less important than it though.

	31-12-2003 22:00									#7
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Well, I say, it does depend on wether you are at war during the gunpowder era, and also what UUs you have. I played a game with the Ottoman's recently, and didn't have Saltpeter for a VERY long time in the Middle-ages.

I really could have used my Sipahi early, and might have won that game if I had that Saltpeter had I gotten some earlier than I did.

	01-01-2004 02:15									#8
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If I don't have a resource I need I take it.

	01-01-2004 05:30									#9
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Cavalry is good so I value saltpeter quite highly at that point. I don't really mind not having musketmen unless I'm involved in some very nasty wars.

In my current game I have no iron, no horses and no saltpeter in my original territory. I wiped 2 civs and reduced the Byzantines to 3 cities which solved my problem

I'm still in the middle ages, so I can only hope I have enough land for the other resources...

	01-01-2004 06:21									#10
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I can tell you, in my game as the Dutch I didn't mind not having Saltpeter all that much

	01-01-2004 07:23									#11
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Yeah Saltpeter is important, But I would have to say Oil is more. Oil is needed for alot of the units in the modern era.

One thing I hate is it seems that all my starting areas seems to be lacking resources like Saltpeter, Iron, oil, ect. And of corse the computer playes get all the good stuff.

One game I remembered this one game. The Russians had this island all to thems selfs and had pretty much all the resources I needed. So I made friends with them and traded some money and some Luxury Resource. I then build up this army and liberated island. It truned out that Island had oil and Uranium too. I never really saw something like that.

One question how do the resources disappear? Its very annoying.

	01-01-2004 07:40									#12
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Some resources re-distribute, but never disappear. The editor gives this figure, be it 1 in 80 or whatever. While it's annoying the AI has so many advantages, I'm counter-annoying in how I can lock AI into war against buddies for 'all time' using resources to clinch the deal:

Me: "I'll give you iron if you ally with me!"
AI: "OK! "

8 turns later...

AI: "Bored of this...sign peace..."
AI: "Oh, no iron "

ME: "Get back in the war, and you can have your iron back!"
AI: "OK! "

A human would probably never let you get away with stunts like that, but the AI is unfortunate enough not ot have the depth to see that one coming
Another reason why I like resource scarcity
Losing the chance for cavs would peeve me - but then, I'd just attack the nearest city or two holding one
Planned, of course...not a hotch-potch job causing more trouble than it's worth

	01-01-2004 09:49									#13
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I like using Strategic resources to sue for peace with countries that annoy me while I'm off in builderland. Attack me, no oil.

	01-01-2004 10:23									#14
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maas, you can right-click on an AI city and get the Terrain Info that way also.

Steven

	01-01-2004 10:29									#15
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Oh, I almost forgot about KNO3.

I'm currently playing as the Japanese and have no saltpeter, I'm also currently behind in techs, AND enjoy beating-up on my neighbors). So far, my Samurai have staved-off several Cavalry invasions. I don't think that this can last too much longer, but I'm doing OK at the moment w/o Saltpeter.

Steven

	01-01-2004 10:37									#16
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I've gone through entire games without horses. I could do without uranium as well depending on how close I am to winning.

	01-01-2004 10:39									#17
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Well, as many games can end before the modern age, uranium and aluminum may never come onto the map.

	01-01-2004 10:53									#18
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aw I read it above and agree with it totally, if you don't have ot and they do, then go and get it from them....

then leave their cities in ruins

	01-01-2004 10:58									#19
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker I can tell you, in my game as the Dutch I didn't mind not having Saltpeter all that much

Evil evil Dutch!!

	01-01-2004 13:43									#20
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara If I don't have a resource I need I take it.

That sounds good, but is not always pratical. Say you need saltpetter and none iis on your contient. You can get to theirs yet, now what.

Maybe you can get to theirs, but they have muskets and calvs already. You may have the tech, but no saltpetter remember?



Oh the pain

	01-01-2004 20:42									#21
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara If I don't have a resource I need I take it.

And yet you criticise Bush...

	01-01-2004 22:22									#22
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This is where being a good Machiavellian pays off. Whether it's a permanent situation (you only want to trade for it but don't really want to conquer the resource) or as a way to allow yourself to build an army of conquest, finding out what a supplier lacks can be helpful.

It reduces your gpt costs of doing business, if you can throw in a luxury or a resource of your own into the deal. Sometimes, it even pays to go to war to nab a resouce/luxury you don't really need but your supplier needs. This can create profitable long term dependencies that can keep an important ally out of all future MAs against you.

	02-01-2004 00:42									#23
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker And yet you criticise Bush...

dammit, i was so going to go there!

	04-01-2004 00:09									#24
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Saltpeter is one of the LEAST important resources, as someone said earlier.

Rubber - the be-all, end-all, gotta have it resource