01-01-2004 02:04									#31
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quote: Ok, key points are: she's a Chinese Christian (Singaporean to be exact). I am finding them to be christians to the extreme - like, insane extreme.

The most fundimentalist religious people are always the converts.

Any way is this something that's been building for a while or did it come out of the blue. If it came out of the blue then she's likely miffed about something else and she's using this as an excuse. If you really don't care about going to church or not and you just don't like her church then tell her you'll gladely go to church with her but only if you both get to decide upon which church you will attend. That should sound like an attempt to compromise & with luck she'll back off.

	01-01-2004 02:10									#32
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quote: Ok, key points are: she's a Chinese Christian (Singaporean to be exact). I am finding them to be christians to the extreme - like, insane extreme.

Unless you are also extreme, there will be numerous conflicts about it in the future. It does seem you two love each other, but unless you can reach a compromise that you can live with for the rest of your lives, you should break up.

	01-01-2004 02:16									#33
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this is actually one of the reasons my parents got divorced

	01-01-2004 02:17									#34
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don't change who you are. You shouldn't become something you're not just to appease her. She should love you for who you are or not at all. I'd put my foot down!

	01-01-2004 02:25									#35
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My fiancee went to a restrictive church when we first met, too. We had a discussion about it before we started dating, though, and came to the conclusion that we could date even if I didn't go to her church, as long as I was a Christian (which I was, by my definition, if not by the definition of her church.) If she had said otherwise, though, I would not have even started dating her. Not so much because I didn't want to go to her church, although that would have been a deal-breaker as well, but because of the mindset it would have shown her to hold. If she had believed that her way was the only way it could possibly be, then odds are a relationship wouldn't be that great anyways. No room for compromise kind of kills the fun of being with somebody.

Her church wouldn't have let us get married unless I was a member of it or another similar Christian sect, too. She's since left it, though. Which is good, because, although I am a Christian, I object to churches in general, and particularly churches like hers.

(Oh, I have to add this link, too. I was looking for a link to her church, and apparently they've got a new Flash opening which is rather........ah.............impressive. Yeah. Impressive.

Calvary Chapel Bangor

As far as that church goes, all I can say is that any church founded in the 60's in California is a little suspect...)

	01-01-2004 02:40									#36
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Women marry men thinking they will change
Men marry women thining they never will

Marriage should not be about sacrifice, and that is what she is asking you (Sn00py) to do. Marriage is about compromise, something my wife needs to learn, and unfortunately there is no real compromise in matters of faith, especially when she is forcing hers upon you.

I agree with Theban; you should break up.

Yet, I only have no knowledge of your relationship, so I could be wrong. Still, if you are even asking this, then it is not ment to be.

	01-01-2004 03:10									#37
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I knew a guy who went to Calvery Chapel when I was in high school. He was a nice enough fellow but rather on the fundimentalist side of the religious spectrum. The Calvery seems to be a bit cult like in the way it tries to monopolize it's member's time. I mean that guy I knew went to Church like four or five days per week with all of the yougth groups, bible studies, activity groups, and what not.

	01-01-2004 03:11									#38
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wow... I had a similar dilemna... there are a million other girls they aren't worth sacrificing your principles over.

I wouldn't even hesitate.

	01-01-2004 03:18									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I knew a guy who went to Calvery Chapel when I was in high school. He was a nice enough fellow but rather on the fundimentalist side of the religious spectrum. The Calvery seems to be a bit cult like in the way it tries to monopolize it's member's time. I mean that guy I knew went to Church like four or five days per week with all of the yougth groups, bible studies, activity groups, and what not.

if that is what he wanted to do socially, than that is fine

church has a lot of social components

Jon Miller

	01-01-2004 03:24									#40
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Upon reflection, my fiancee finds it somewhat cult-ish too, but more because they try to control your mind and every waking thought than because of the multiple weekly meetings and such.

	01-01-2004 03:29									#41
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Either she accepts you for who you are, or she doesn't and you break up. And it looks to me like she's not quite doing the former

Also, remember kids: Prenup's are a must for any marriage.

	01-01-2004 04:44									#42
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You are a man. You have to decide. Make your mind up and then give her the options based on your decision.

I know that sounds harsh but if you don't do it now you are the one who will spend the rest of your life compromising. Be selfish! It's your life so decide.

	01-01-2004 06:25									#43
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Well I bet we will be talking about this tonight for quite some time, so I will let ya's know how things end.

I REALLY hope that she humbles herself more from the church and finds peace in the rest of the world aswell, she is of course Singaporean and that is something they are not good at, but something they do look for. I don't seek to change her, but if she wants help, I want to help her.

	01-01-2004 08:19									#44
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quote: Is she right or am I right?

Women have long memories, and have the ability to make your life a living hell. With this in mind, provided you think she's worth it, just do what she says.

Edit: But of course you can work on "humbling her" from now on, but I would say for the time being just go along with it.

	08-01-2004 16:15									#45
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Rough to have this come up AFTER the engagement.

quote: I told her I am neutral about going to church. I told her that I don't mind church at all and I wouldn't mind it if I went there with her, but I am not actually wanting to go there for my own purposes.

The reason she's pushing this so hard is that she fears if you do not want to go to church that you will eventually come to resent going with her. Would you be willing to stand behind her your whole life?

quote: I had to be in her church just to be allowed to marry her

It really does work best, to come from the same or similar backgrounds. Fewer arguments over which church to attend, and how you would raise kids.

quote: I have gone to church for many months, but it is now starting to repeat itself, and I can see now what church really is. I don't see a NEED for it.

That's not a very good reason not to go. Church is not just about the lesson, but also about how to apply the lesson. It's also about the fellowship, as well as an opportunity to worship. You need all these parts in a church, which makes the purpose much different from a school. You should not just be going to recieve, in the form of lessons, but also to give back to the church.

quote: It's like School, you can go there to learn Mathematics, but you don't NEED to, you could learn Mathematics elsewhere. I just don't see Church as being extremely important. But my Fiance does and she wants me to aswell.

So where else would you find a church-substitute? All by yourself? That's not going to work because it helps to have others for support and guidance.

I have to agree with her. She knows you do not like her church, so without a need in yourself, you will not likely keep going with her once you get married and busy.

I think it's best to call of the engagement, unless you can work out another churh that will be suitable to both of you.

	08-01-2004 17:12									#46
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quote: Calvary Chapel Bangor

You lived in Bangor? Dear god you have my sympathy.

<--- MDI boy

	09-01-2004 00:14									#47
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Any religion that forces a choice between Love and God...................................

	09-01-2004 00:17									#48
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Even better....about 20 miles north of Bangor. Bangor would be a step up, maybe some nice nightlife or something. Until everything closes at 9, at least.

Could be worse, could be the county. And I always wanted to live on MDI.

	09-01-2004 00:21									#49
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Religious differences strike me as a HUGE problem for a marriage. It's not a once-and-done issue, particularly if you plan on having children. She's gonna want them raised fundy, you know.

You have my sympathy, Snoopy. Not a fun situation.

-Arrian

	09-01-2004 00:24									#50
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Well, I'd write off the last three years as a "learning experience" and move along.

Where religion is concerned, you need a like-minded partner - especially once children are involved. That's why I married a good atheist.

	09-01-2004 00:31									#51
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mrt144, really? Same here.. my mom who is so good christian thought she'd dump my dad, because they don't share enough things anymore, and to be correct, he doesn't want to talk about jesus enough. Well guess what, he doesn't give a crap. He's a man, he don't wanna talk about it, and he don't care about it. So, jesus is his main man now. Very christian. The logic is so incredible I could punch a car in half just in rage from that logic. It's just STUPID.

ANyway to this thread.. I don't know. I think, that if you love her you should be able to jump few hoops, but this has something in the air that says she thinks she can 'convert' you to a believer she is, and expects you to take part like she does. If not, this will heat things between you. It will take many ugly situations I guess. But she will not get it, ever. They never do these types.
They think it's their mission or something, and that it can happen even if you shout NO x 100000000. And at the end, they will choose jesus, and dump your ass.

And to be quit honest, I'm a christian too and I believe in jesus. No problems here. But I don't want to be hearing it all the time, I don't want it in my face. Especially from certain people not from this board though, I'm sick of hearing WWJD, lord this lord that, if that's the every other word and logic they use. STFU! If I ask these people to not bring it up all the time, it's impossible, there's no way around to it. And that's when I think, well maybe this person is fundamentalist, and that's never good. I think some of them have lost it and dropped the ball.

	09-01-2004 00:34									#52
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My Dad (was forced?) to convert to marry my mom. She said that after taking the courses, he almost called off the marriage to become a priest! Certainly, my Dad was not unhappy at the conversion, even though his family was.

I also think having both parents of the same religion is important for marriages and raising kids.

	09-01-2004 01:07									#53
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I'm a recovering Episcopalian. The wife is a recovering Catholic. The religious arguments are just . . . weird.

	09-01-2004 01:15									#54
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Going to church cause of ur S.O..... been there done that.

not fun. Worth it? depends on the individual i guess.

	09-01-2004 01:58									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Theben Unless you are also extreme, there will be numerous conflicts about it in the future. It does seem you two love each other, but unless you can reach a compromise that you can live with for the rest of your lives, you should break up.

It is VERY important to know there will be no lifelong beef. Too many married couples break up after a mere few years because the lovers haven't realized they're simply not made to live their whole life together.

If you cannot reach a compromise that will actually satisfy both of you (and a real satisfaction, not a "oh, ok" intended to duck the issue, or to wait for the problem to pass), you are doomed either to constantly clash about the issue, or to break up after a few years of marriage.

It is very important to clear this kind of things out before marriage. Or, in other words, before it's too late.

	09-01-2004 02:01									#56
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BTW, did you discussed how you'll raise your children? As you're engaged, you should do so before marriage too. There may be a room for intolerable disagreement here. And again, better safe than sorry.

	09-01-2004 02:41									#57
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It is normal in Chinese culture to slap the hand, or use a cane firmly on the palm of the childs hand.

I told her that I don't agree with any form of child abuse of any level and I told her that we will not be doing that with our children. She had to think hard about it (which I found really strange, it's like, hmm.. is it ok to hit my children or not?) to me, the answer is obvious.

I'm hoping she will eventually learn why not to hit children, but I don't want to change her, however, people do need to learn, no matter who I marry, they're all going to have many things to learn in their life; and same goes for me.

Anyway, we seemed to have resolved our issue, but we didn't really finalise anything, we just simply stopped arguing. The debate is bound to come back up again.


Ben, I understand what you are saying, but I don't like social groups or gatherings very much. I'm not saying I have social problems, I am just saying I don't like social events. The only part of church I like is when the pastor preaches, I like this because I like to learn. I'm not interested in what the rest of church does. I'm very suspicious about the 10% tithings. I can't see why God would need money. I can't see why church would need money if the people of church have God, sounds like a lack of faith and trust to me.

If you were truly faithful and trustful of God, you would give EVERYTHING you have away, just like Jesus said in the bible - but I don't think people trust God enough to go to that extreme. They all think "oh, but wait, I might need it to survive, what if I am wrong, what if there is no God and I have given everything I own away!". So I know there is a sense of distrust in Christians around the world. Probably the true believers are on the streets or living deep in some wilderness area somewhere on this planet.

One thing I don't like about the preaching is that the pastors make out that they must be right because God is talking through them. I disagree with this.

I don't believe that humans have the capability to comprehend God and his Universe accurately. So whenever I listen to a sermon or whatever, I take it in, I archive it, but I don't carry it out fanatically.

I have actually had a funny/interesting thought a few months ago. I wanted to see if I could send our a mass message to the world, to all the people of all the Christian churches. I was going to tell them "Don't go to Church in suits this Sunday, go in rags".

Probably then you would find the true believers.

	09-01-2004 02:47									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Sn00py Anyway, we seemed to have resolved our issue, but we didn't really finalise anything, we just simply stopped arguing. The debate is bound to come back up again.

It doesn't look like a solution. You really should bring up the issue, and solve it before marriage. Even if that means postponing the marriage, that's worth it.

	09-01-2004 02:51									#59
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That sounds more like you gave up arguing from frustration.

I agree with Spiffor, you need to finalize this before marriage.

	09-01-2004 03:09									#60
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It will be brought up again before marriage, that I can assure of. I think we both need to weigh up what's most important for the each of us. Our belief or Marriage.

The thing is, I am happy with what she does, she is just not happy with what I do. Which has to be the Singapore-New Zealand culture clash. We are very accepting people, Singaporeans are not.