02-01-2004 22:26									#1
	Enforcing the law and the rules Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

What's up with this.. why society is so impotent of forcing it own rules, with the methods that is has already accepted? Why do we keep giving mercy and new chances to people who have not shown a sign to deserve it?

Just read, that in here there was a woman and her child (6 yo) stabbed by old boyfriend. The 6 year old daughter jumped from the second floor to the ground and was able to reach the neighbours who alarmed the cops. They both survived. The attacker is looking two counts of attempted killing, which means maybe 4 to 5 years, out in few. How sick is this? Why does the victims has to be afraid of attackers even after they've been caught witht the most serious offenses? The sickening part is, it's not the first time he has attacked. Stabbing an innocent 6 year old, her mother, and trying to kill them (multiple wounds) doesn't say 'attempted kill - 5 years!'. It says 'you sick **** - 35 years'.

It's the damn heal the world feeling that's what it is. We just love so much human beings, the bastards that are to blame for everything that is wrong in this world - yet we praise the clear psycho minds that we will do everything in our power to save you, meaning he'll get out soon, not getting better.

We should help them to not hurt anyone else ever.

Then why do we punish these people with the lowest possible sentences, or use the middle of the scale, and not the top punishment in these clear cases? I mean, if we had 2 year as a life sentence, we'd be using paroled sentences for killers because maximum sentence is bad.

What would you do if you were this person stabbed with a child? Remember, she's had previous attacks from the same man before. I'd get out of this god forsaken country, because it's clear, we can't protect them. We are not even willing to protect them. They can't protect themselves, it's not like they can get a gun. What I would seriously do is apply for asylum from other country.

I don't know why this whole thing is so difficult. Maybe Supercitizen here is needed.

	02-01-2004 22:29									#2
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Well I think a main problem is that you live in Finland . In the states we put our criminals away longer .

	02-01-2004 22:33									#3
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Well but it's not working for you guys either. You have a different problem though.

btw, It just might be, that I won't be able to move there either. Because I've been marked for smoking marijuana when I was a teenager, so you know that's a hard crime in here, and you will never be given up. I should have killed someone instead, at least then I'd feel like a criminal.

	02-01-2004 22:33									#4
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This is something i have never understood about Europe. If something like that happened in the United States, that guy would net get out for at least a few decades. Yet whenever I hear about sentencing in Europe, the penalties are always so light; it seems even common for murders to not get a life sentence.

	02-01-2004 22:35									#5
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And what's with the domestic things anyway. If you beat your wife, you should be punished for it. 'It's between the man and the wife' is BS. You don't have right to lay your hands on a person, you don't own anyone. It's a sick thing, but what is more sicker is that the society accepts it. If we didn't accept it, we would do something about it, and not just 'oh that's terrible'. Yeah well it's never going to stop so you can either send the bastards to lock up or you can make them coffee and pat their heads because they're in inner pain. God damn social liberal bastard society I hate it!

	02-01-2004 22:37									#6
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Shi, yeah. Remember life sentence in here is 12 years. I have a friend whose brother was stabbed, intentions of killing this man. It was a freak thing though, nto planned. Some random drunk dude just got mad and stabbed him BAD, including stomach, face and the neck. Survived, attacker got 3 years. He got out in little less than 2. Would you be afraid? I'd be freaking out, he can do it again and this time succeed. You get rewarded for not being able to kill someone... It's sick. Sick!

	02-01-2004 22:48									#7
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And we've been so worried for the last decade or so about the drug problem and that we should punish the pot smokers to hell and no one says anything about the facts that we have alcohol problem so huge it can't be fixed in 100 years. It's the usual story, middle aged buddies drinkign 3 days straight and them someone gets killed. Then we all go 'well, they were just normal guys how is this possible!'.. uh oh... ok.
Being drunk is an excuse that makes the sentences lower, which is weird. I mean if I kill someone while drunk, it's not so severe after all my judgement was lowered. Even if I intendend to kill the person and got drunk and did it. Then if there's marijuana found in his blood, well it's clear case the killer was a drug addict and crazy person.

I'm not trying to sponsor drugs here. I'm saying we need to identify the real problem, not find excuses. If someone smoked pot, it doesn't mean that it's the reason of the act by default. It's dangerous to assume so.

Then there are the 'teen killers', a recent hot topic since we seem to have them every now and then. Then we say it's a problem in society. Society never offered enough to this person. Naturally, the most often times the killer is from 'a good family'. Then we say 'well, uh oh we don't know what the problem is maybe he was crazy drug addict? No? Well it's obvious mommy didn't breastfeed the kid and showed no love'. We NEVER see the problem in the individual that has commited the crime! We always need to have an explanation, a clear ONE reason. So we can sleep at night.

It's lies and excuses, it's deception and false. At the end, we'll discover the problem, but it will take 100 years, because of our anti-american attitudes and pro-social feelings. I blame Bush and the commies.

	02-01-2004 22:50									#8
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Death penalty for murderers. The bastards will never make the same mistake twice.

	02-01-2004 23:35									#9
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California has three strikes law. That means for each fellony you commit, the next two get higher setences. I think on the second time you get 15 years and the thrid you get 25 to life in prision. Even if you are just shop lifting.

Many say that this is the reason why crime has gone down in California, because we lock up all the criminals.
Of course maybe a more effective death penality could do the trick too.

	02-01-2004 23:42									#10
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Jack_www, Well I kind of don't agree with that either... I think if you shoplift 3 times and get a life because of it, it's not very good, even if the rule is known...

	03-01-2004 03:50									#11
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No, that is not it. The first two felonies have to be violent ones. The thrid can be any crime that you comit. A shoplifter could never be aftected by the three strikes law. You have to commite two violent felonies.

	03-01-2004 03:53									#12
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Aaaah ok.. well that makes more sense. I like it.

	03-01-2004 04:20									#13
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And shoplifting isn't a felony .

	03-01-2004 04:21									#14
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Exactly. Is beating up a punk who started it felony?

	03-01-2004 04:31									#15
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Battery? Well if it's bad enough it can be .

	03-01-2004 04:33									#16
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I'm in favor of sharp hikes in penalties as people become second and third offenders, it weeds out the true unhelpable bastards from the more-or-less innocent who merely made a ****up.

	03-01-2004 04:48									#17
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Imran, Nah it's self defense.

	03-01-2004 05:07									#18
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For shoplifting? There is no self-defense for that!

It can be justified battery, but not self-defense.

	03-01-2004 05:13									#19
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Shoplifting? What are you talking about.. I was talking about self defense.. That if there are 3 incidents that a punk attacks you and you just accidentally happen to dominate the situation, you get life for it. I think that would be wrong.

	03-01-2004 05:28									#20
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We were talking about shoplifting and then you said 'exactly' .

	03-01-2004 05:34									#21
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Yeah. But you got me wrong, I didn't continue talking about shoplifting.. my bad.

	03-01-2004 05:49									#22
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What kind of fascists are you guys?

The crime rate in the US is the highest of the Western world, and the death penalties/life sentences are sure doing nothing against it.

And about the 'three strikes you're out law': it does make some sense, but:

1. As long as using drugs is a crime, this law can only suck
2. Crime commited by minors should not be counted
3. And I sincerely think it should only apply to violent crimes and/or very major frauds or thefts, even if they are non-violent. Sending a father or a mother to jail because he stole a TV is the best thing to do if you want to cook brand new criminals with their children.

In Quebec, everyone is pissed off because the federal forced us to abandon our 'young offenders law', which was much less strict and gave more results in reintegrating them.

	03-01-2004 05:57									#23
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quote: the death penalties/life sentences are sure doing nothing against it.

It's getting these sickos off the streets.

quote: 2. Crime commited by minors should not be counted

Why not? If a minor knows right and wrong then he should be charged as an adult. If you kill or rape, I don't care if you are 12.. you should go away for a loooong time.

	03-01-2004 07:32									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: the death penalties/life sentences are sure doing nothing against it. It's getting these sickos off the streets. quote: 2. Crime commited by minors should not be counted Why not? If a minor knows right and wrong then he should be charged as an adult. If you kill or rape, I don't care if you are 12.. you should go away for a loooong time.

If you really wanted to fight crime, you'd take Europe's path. Crime policies should be pragmatic. As in, taking a sicko off the street is not going to do any good if two others will be reborn.

And yes, tolerance towards juvenile crimes has yielded excellent results. Many of them end up not commiting other crimes again. Putting them in the rough world of jails already filled by criminals won't help them, and actually increases criminality rates.

	03-01-2004 07:54									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka You get rewarded for not being able to kill someone... It's sick. Sick!

Here you get rewarded if you succeed.

	03-01-2004 08:07									#26
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Well I disagree. I think sickos off the streets. Number ONE priority is to keep society and citizens safe from sickos. Number two is to help the sickos. It's important, but not as important as to keep us safe.

	07-01-2004 14:44									#27
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YEEEEES! Finnish Justice System has done it again! We have shown the impotence and the damn liberal socialist way our minds think! (exclude me out)

Todays paper:

A guy was convicted to 3 and a half years on prison. So you know according to our punishments, he was hardcore right? Well guess what, he just got released and the accusations went to trash bin. Can you guess what he did, and why he got released and no punishment?

He was/is a pedophile, we love them, and they only want to love kids right? We made sweet love to kids. It is said to be S/M flavoured, but I'm sure the kids got as much out of it too, so who's counting how many he ****ed. It only says multiple, so I guess it's a bunch of kids, happy kids. Now why he got released then? Because the crime got old! Best Before Date was passed already! He ****ed kids in 1988 and 1992, that we know of and he's caught now from those.. but hey, the kids are already adults, so what are they whining anymore!

Want to hear the best part? Court ordered the torture equipment he used in some sick sex scenarios (and when I say sick sex scenarios it has to be sick!) to be handed back to the poor man! Can you believe this ****? He got his tools back too!

And the justice minister, the main impotent and mofo himself is now worried that he got released, because he thought he should have done the 3.5 years. 3.5 years for torturing and having sex with many kids? I say ****ing life! I guess 3.5 was too much to ask anyway.
Nothing is going to change either.. it's going to be like this always.

When I have kids, do I feel safe to let them out? Pedophiles are not left out of punishments here, their rights are protected so much that they get their torture tools back too. ****ERS! I feel like kicking ass, and not the pedophiles ass, but the judges, and prosecutors, and the mother****ing 'justice' ministers ass, and the presidents ass, and everyone who disagrees with me ass.

	07-01-2004 15:00									#28
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I agree, why we treat attempted muder differently than murder is confusing, the notion we should reward bungled murder attempts is

	07-01-2004 15:03									#29
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You know what gets me the most? We have these whiny little social liberal self celebrating punks, the living in the clowds high on heroin thinking everythings ok living in a gutter stupid POS's, saying 'hey it's not all that bad, we have one of the lowest amounts of prisoners here'.. YEAH well I wonder why that is? Maybe, because you don't get in prison no matter what you do!?!!?!? Could that be it?!!! 'We have such low crime rate', I suggest you read the papers and statistic, they say otherwise you brainwashed finlandizised fool! THIS gets me the worst!

You know why its like this? Because, these people have never being victims of a real crime!!!! Not talking about getting your cell phone stolen, talking about getting your kid raped, getting your front teeth knocked in and ribs kicked in because of nothing. I'm talking about getting stabbed in the face because some drunk **** thought you were checking out his girl or some stupid things like that. How you feel after that huh?

I'll make hell of noise about this too, no one else seems to. Every single day this continues, we accept this. I don't accept kids being raped and molested and the guilty ones getting a way, or getting few years, I'm against this crap!! But everyone who I see not blinking their eyes, I blame YOU for not standing up against it. It is all of your fault. Yes, exactly, I mean what I say.
Where is our collective social feelings now, it doesn' tmatter when it's someone else kids right? Oh yeah we can alwyas cry us a river, how about some action!?
We are bunch of pussies, all of us. I want no part of it.

	07-01-2004 17:47									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: the death penalties/life sentences are sure doing nothing against it. It's getting these sickos off the streets.

Yes, and banging them up for years and years in criminal acadmies (sorry prisons, but with the recidivism rate from US prisons twice that of European ones you have to wonder).

By locking them up for longer instead of rehabilitating them all the US does is delay the problem.

This can cause a fall in crime as long as the prison population is going up quickly - but that creates it's own problems (mainly one of finance).