02-01-2004 23:50									#1
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Great Leaders not allowed to rush wonders.
Is this another bug problem???
Nothing was mentioned in either the rule book or readme file. Have not seen any responses on this subject here either.

Scientific GL's--What is the chance of getting one??
Regular GL's w/o Heroic Epic is 1 in 16. With it, 1 in 12.
Does Heoric Epic have any effect on the Scientific GL's??

And as I stated previously, why strive for GL's if you can't use them to rush Wonders.Oops, misspoke. Only applies to Great Wonders. Was able to rush small ones.

	03-01-2004 00:06									#2
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This isn't a bug. Military Great Leaders (MGLs) can't rush great wonders in Conquests, but, like you said, they can rush anything else. However, armies have been pumped-up. They are much more valuable than they were before. So, MGLs are still quite useful.

Someone else will have to answer your questions on Scientific GLs.

	03-01-2004 00:14									#3
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You only have a chance of getting an SGL if you research a tech no-one has before. If you are a non-scientific civ you have a 3% chance when you finish researching, a 5% chance if you are a Sci civ. I don't think heroic epic has any effect.

	03-01-2004 00:59									#4
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makes it nearly impossible. I've researched every single tech after the first age before the AI all the way up to modern age, and never gotten a SGL.

	03-01-2004 01:25									#5
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Playing Emperor Level as the Byzantines and by the mid-middle ages right around astronomy tech I already had 6 SGLs!

They are scientific so that must make a huge difference.

Is this normal? Or unbelievably lucky?

I rushed Pyramids, Sun Tzus, Sistines, Bachs, Corpernicus, and Adam Smiths.

	03-01-2004 01:37									#6
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That is going to happen sometimes, Matt. On Regent I have been the leader most of the time for 1-1/2 games: first game I got 2 SGL; my current game, 1 so far.

If you were a candidate for getting a SGL for FORTY techs in a game, there would still be almost a 30% chance of getting ZERO SGLs (non-scientific)!! (97%^40)

	03-01-2004 02:08									#7
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Artifex,

How did you rush those wonders when your not allowed too???

	03-01-2004 02:10									#8
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does getting MGL affect getting SGL'ers?

In the same game, being china (militaristic, industrious) and playing on regent, i had 4 MGL's. Could the amount of MGL's you had affect the chance of getting SGL's?

Now that i think of it, i had one unused MGL waiting around cause i couldn't build anymore armies. I know you can't have more than 1 MGL, does this also apply to SGL's? Meaning you can only have one GL, independent from what kind he is?

IF so, i guess thats why i never saw a SGL.

	03-01-2004 03:03									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Muad'Dib Artifex, How did you rush those wonders when your not allowed too???

You are allowed to rush great wonders with a science GL.

	03-01-2004 03:09									#10
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quote: Originally posted by MattPilot does getting MGL affect getting SGL'ers? In the same game, being china (militaristic, industrious) and playing on regent, i had 4 MGL's. Could the amount of MGL's you had affect the chance of getting SGL's? Now that i think of it, i had one unused MGL waiting around cause i couldn't build anymore armies. I know you can't have more than 1 MGL, does this also apply to SGL's? Meaning you can only have one GL, independent from what kind he is? IF so, i guess thats why i never saw a SGL.

No you can have both at once an I have. You are allowed to have more than one SGL, but I have not been faced with that problem.

I have only played as a SCI civ once and it seem to help as that is the only time I got an ancient age SGL.

I am am up 4 or more tech on emp now and have not had an SGL very late in the industrial age. It is common for me to get to this point and not get one. It is down to China and me for all practical purposes so I went back to do the skip techs to see if that would get me an SGL. Don't need on though as the AI will not be able to beat me to any wonders now.

	03-01-2004 03:10									#11
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Having a MGL does not affect the chances of having a SGL , you can have more than one SGL at a time and also when you have a MGL already available. You can still only have one MGL at any time, so holding on to one will mean no more will be produced

	03-01-2004 04:58									#12
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I have been a scientific leader for years and have NEVER gotten an SGL

	03-01-2004 17:01									#13
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Twice I got a SGL when I was the first to get Philosophy and a free tech. One other time I was the first but no SGL was produced. I think I was Scientific in only one of those games (the second time I got a SGL).

- Kef

	03-01-2004 18:23									#14
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WOOHOO!!! I got my FIRST SGL last night!!!

BTW, do you think "Ah Cacao" is a real name, or was someone at Firaxis a chocoholic (Ah! Chocolate! )

	04-01-2004 00:35									#15
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"I have been a scientific leader for years and have NEVER gotten an SGL"--justjake73


Don't forget to get an SGL you have to make sure you are ahead in the tech race and are first to dicover most techs. Otherwise you will never get one. The game I got 6 SGLs I made research a huge priority and got way ahead of the AI (this is even on emperor, so it can be done with good management and trading). I was first toi dicover most all the techs in the ancient age and was first in ALL techs in the middle ages except Invention. That is a ton of techs so odds are you will get a few SGLs, but ONLY if you make research a priority.

There is no chance at all if you get beaten to techs.

It paid off for me bigtime with the 6 SGLS and 6 great wonders.

	04-01-2004 00:50									#16
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quote: It paid off for me bigtime with the 6 SGLS and 6 great wonders.

But since you were so far ahead, all those SGLs were just icing on the cake, since you could have just BUILT those wonders the hard way.

	04-01-2004 04:45									#17
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I have another couple of questions concerning scientific leaders.

As you know you can also use them to boost research. However I found that doing this only made me research one turn faster. I was Greece in republic, golden age, and boosted science research in a city which had a library, university and the Copernicus Wonder.

I gather that the science leader increases research by 25% for twenty turns. Is this true?

So this use of the science leader seems not to be such a good idea. Or maybe I was just unlucky with the incremental way research is handled?

	04-01-2004 06:23									#18
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That is my perspective on it. Just not worth it in most cases.
If you knew you were neck and neck in research with the AI, maybe then. If that were the case, you would probably not be getting the leader in the first place.

	04-01-2004 06:42									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc I was Greece in republic, golden age, and boosted science research in a city which had a library, university and the Copernicus Wonder. I gather that the science leader increases research by 25% for twenty turns. Is this true?

It is 25% for 20 turns but it is not city specific -- it is empire wide.

Catt

	04-01-2004 08:43									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Catt It is 25% for 20 turns but it is not city specific -- it is empire wide. Catt

Aha. Didn't know that. Are you sure? It just seemed to me that the science was only boosted in the city where I 'wasted' the SGL.

Must check manual again then.

	04-01-2004 09:08									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc Aha. Didn't know that. Are you sure? It just seemed to me that the science was only boosted in the city where I 'wasted' the SGL. Must check manual again then.

Don't rely on the manual. Observe what happens in your game. The increase will happen in all cities. Despite that fact, if an attractive wonder is available it's hard to imagine the 25% boost as equal to the effects of a quality wonder.

Catt

	04-01-2004 12:20									#22
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It is an empire wide boost. If you have a small empire and most cities are not contributing beakers, well you get the picture.

	05-01-2004 15:30									#23
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"BTW, do you think "Ah Cacao" is a real name, or was someone at Firaxis a chocoholic (Ah! Chocolate! )"

I believe Ah Cacao was a Mayan ruler who built some stonking great temples in the city of Tikal in modern Guatemala. And I think that the name really does mean something like "King Chocolate". He gets top marks for style!

	05-01-2004 17:04									#24
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I think there may be a right time to use a SGL for a Science Age, perhaps in the middle to late game when there's not really anything you need to rush-build (unless you're building the spaceship perhaps)...of course the game is usually won by then, but it might not be, and in any case I wouldn't use it just to rush a police station or something.

- Kef

	05-01-2004 23:29									#25
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I was so pissed. I had the Koreans beat by turns to get the Hoover's Dam (20 me, 25 them), and the SGL'd it next turn!!! And I worked so hard to catch up tech wise and get my city ready for the wonder.

	06-01-2004 02:24									#26
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I just finished my game where I was first to all modern age techs and most industrial and never got an SGL in either age. I was on SDI the last tech.

I would have used the SGL to chop a turn off of research, since I was manually building all wonders with ease, unless it can rush an ICBM.