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Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Archive > Off-Topic-Archive > UK Welcomed Pinochet's Bloody 1973 Chilean Coup
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Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:33
  Old Post 03-01-2004 00:41 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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UK Welcomed Pinochet's Bloody 1973 Chilean Coup Support Apolyton

By Gideon Long

LONDON (Reuters) - Britain welcomed General Augusto Pinochet (news - web sites)'s violent 1973 coup in Chile and regarded his military officers as "decent professionals" who were "on our side," documents released Thursday showed.

While accepting that the coup leaders would crack down hard on their leftist opponents, London's ambassador to Chile said Pinochet was better for Britain than the deposed Socialist government of President Salvador Allende.

"The current regime has infinitely more to offer British interests than the one which preceded it," ambassador Reginald Seconde wrote in a report on the coup three weeks after Pinochet seized power on September 11, 1973.

"The new leaders are unequivocally on our side and want to do business, in its widest sense with us."

The report is one of hundreds of papers relating to the Chilean coup released by Britain's national archive, the Public Records Office (PRO).

Intriguingly though, the government has decided to hold back files relating to the day of the coup itself. They could in theory cast light on the role Western governments -- led by the United States -- played in the overthrow of Allende.


In his report, ambassador Seconde describes Pinochet's officers as "decent professionals, with no political experience, and little subtlety or idea of public relations."


"Their twin aims are to root out Marxism and to restore order," he writes. "Their instinct will be to do this by disciplinary means and they are likely to be heavy handed."


More than 3,000 people were killed in the coup and its aftermath. Many were leftists who were tortured and whose bodies were dumped in the Pacific Ocean or in the Mapocho river in the Chilean capital Santiago.


Seconde tells his seniors in London that "it is unlikely that the military will hand back power to the politicians soon."


He was right. Chile had 17 years of dictatorship before Pinochet stepped down in 1990.


The British ambassador has mixed feelings about Allende, a democratically elected Marxist who killed himself on the day of the coup when the air force bombed his presidential palace.


He describes Allende as "sincere and single-minded" in his Marxist views but "thoroughly devious" as a politician.


"He was a brilliant tactician and manipulator but had only limited breadth of vision," the ambassador says.


The papers also give an idea of the atmosphere in Santiago in the months leading up to the coup and suggests the diplomatic community viewed a military takeover as inevitable.


Writing to the Foreign Office in May 1973, four months before the coup, Seconde is in gloomy mood.


"Everything I have heard and seen so far leads me to believe that the country is whizzing downhill both politically and economically at a rate of knots," he writes.





"Allende muddles on," one Foreign Office official notes in a letter from July 1973. "The sad fact is that Chile has now been led to a situation where... more Chileans accept the possibility of a violent solution."



Never forget either.

Albert Speer is offline Albert Speer
Emperor
Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:33
  Old Post 03-01-2004 00:46
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Allende was arming a paramilitary group to do a coup of his own. being the president of a democratic gov't wasn't enough. He would've turned Chile into a Cuba.

Oncle Boris is offline Oncle Boris
Prince
Once in a brown moon
Aug 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 03-01-2004 00:46
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Was this supposed to be any surprise?

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
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  Old Post 03-01-2004 00:47 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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He was democratically elected.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:33
  Old Post 03-01-2004 00:48 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Oncle Boris
Was this supposed to be any surprise?



No. Absolutely not. Just posting it for history's value and to never forget it.

C0ckney is offline C0ckney
Prince
Big Up The Macedonian Massive
Apr 2000
time: 05:33
  Old Post 03-01-2004 00:48
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yeah but we helped get rid of another south american dictator in 1982, what's greece ever done for anyone?

Oncle Boris is offline Oncle Boris
Prince
Once in a brown moon
Aug 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 03-01-2004 00:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Albert Speer
Allende was arming a paramilitary group to do a coup of his own. being the president of a democratic gov't wasn't enough. He would've turned Chile into a Cuba.


Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

The CIA had been arming right-wing paramilitaries for a decade before the coup. They had started to establish contact with military officers in 1970.

I've never heard of Allende doing this; even if he did, then it would be self-defense at worse.

VJ is offline VJ
Prince
Helsinki
Dec 2001
time: 07:33
  Old Post 03-01-2004 01:08
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

That was 30 years ago.

I don't really understand the point of this thread.

VetLegion is offline VetLegion
Prince

Sep 1999
time: 06:33
  Old Post 03-01-2004 01:09
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I didn't read the article but I did a ctrl+f for "kissinger" and got no hits. How come?

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:33
  Old Post 03-01-2004 01:10 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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The point of this thread and the rememberance at least as I and many see it is that untill proper distribution of justice to the UK is being done this will remain an open subject awaiting vindification when the times will allow. Sooner or later.

A second point but no least of this thread and the remembrance is to pointing this out as this will affect peoples' views about the UK and bring them to the right proportions. Not that any help is needed about that but again the dead of that coup since they can't have justice yet they can at least have their voice be heard from the grave.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:33
  Old Post 03-01-2004 01:53
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oh great... here comes speer defending dictators again...

"but wait! hitler did a lot of good things for germany!"

Traianvs is offline Traianvs
Prince
Belgium, land of plenty (corruption)
Jan 2000
time: 06:33
  Old Post 03-01-2004 02:02
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hitler did one good thing for germany: he shot a bullet in his head

Chilean President™ is offline Chilean President™
Deity
Viña del Mar, CHILE
Feb 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 03-01-2004 02:42 Visit Chilean President™'s homepage!
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Who's that Pinochet person?


quote:
Originally posted by Oncle Boris
I've never heard of Allende doing this; even if he did, then it would be self-defense at worse.


He was a democrat, and I don't think he was trying to transform Chile into another Cuba... BUT.. he did allowed the creation of several left-wing armed group that wanted to build a commie dictatorship, and also he gave control of some government institution to people that shouldn't never be there.

Anyway this is old story. Allende's and Pinochet's governments are considered the worse of our history.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 03-01-2004 02:53
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quote:
He was democratically elected.


With 35% of the vote, mind. So it wasn't like he was backed by an overwhelming majority. Just thought I'd throw that in there, since everyone wants to make Allende into a saint .

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 03-01-2004 02:58 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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He was a hell of a lot better than Pinochet.

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
Emperor
FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:33
  Old Post 03-01-2004 02:59
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quote:
Originally posted by paiktis22
The point of this thread and the rememberance at least as I and many see it is that untill proper distribution of justice to the UK is being done this will remain an open subject awaiting vindification when the times will allow. Sooner or later.

A second point but no least of this thread and the remembrance is to pointing this out as this will affect peoples' views about the UK and bring them to the right proportions. Not that any help is needed about that but again the dead of that coup since they can't have justice yet they can at least have their voice be heard from the grave.


i see nothing in the article quoted that indicates that the UK in any way supported the coup. Merely a set of factual statements, just about all of which were correct. I fail to see how the article quoted says anything about a need for justice.

The Viceroy is offline The Viceroy
Prince
tu mumbai se, mai Bombay se
Nov 2000
time: 05:33
  Old Post 03-01-2004 03:02
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Lets go back 30 years into Greek history, and see what mud we can find .. I do enjoy your threads Paiktis22

Infact, lets go 30 years into the past of any country, and find some government advisors and even government officials that were up to no good .. im sure we could find something.

All this proves is a bunch of UK government bigwigs got it baddly wrong during the 70's .. but of course, nobody does things like that in any other country today ! Lets find another Middle eastern dictator to appease.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:33
  Old Post 03-01-2004 03:02
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Well, for some reaosn the documents about what transpired the day of were not released...what I wonder do they contain?

Oncle Boris is offline Oncle Boris
Prince
Once in a brown moon
Aug 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 03-01-2004 05:15
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quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark


i see nothing in the article quoted that indicates that the UK in any way supported the coup. Merely a set of factual statements, just about all of which were correct. I fail to see how the article quoted says anything about a need for justice.


Yes, since UK was so much of a weak country with no international influence and deficient secret services, they had to resort to statements because it was impossible for them to do something against it.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 03-01-2004 05:30
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quote:
Yes, since UK was so much of a weak country with no international influence and deficient secret services, they had to resort to statements because it was impossible for them to do something against it.


You mean invade the soveriegnty of a country without UN sanction? *gasp* I thought the left was against that!

Oncle Boris is offline Oncle Boris
Prince
Once in a brown moon
Aug 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 03-01-2004 05:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
You mean invade the soveriegnty of a country without UN sanction? *gasp* I thought the left was against that!


Seriously, I've never said I was against the war in Iraq. And I'm not.

And most of my friends do not consider me a leftist, but more like center-right. I have been advocating more privatization in Quebec's public sector.

But you're not my friend anyway, so...

EDIT: your name in my sig has been corrected.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 03-01-2004 05:45
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Thanks... I do want my name correctly spelled next to a totally ****ing obvious statement.

Oncle Boris is offline Oncle Boris
Prince
Once in a brown moon
Aug 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 03-01-2004 06:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Thanks... I do want my name correctly spelled next to a totally ****ing obvious statement.


Yeah, sure. Here is a link to a World Bank chart comparing, amongst other obvious such as PPP GNI and GDP growth, GDP growth per capita, for all countries in the world...

http://www.worldbank.org/data/wdi20...es/table1-1.pdf

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 03-01-2004 06:10
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Here are better numbers (the only ones that count):

GDP (PPP):
China: $5.989 Trillion
Norway: $149.1 Billion

(From CIA World Factbook)

Treadjack OVER .

Chilean President™ is offline Chilean President™
Deity
Viña del Mar, CHILE
Feb 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 03-01-2004 06:15 Visit Chilean President™'s homepage!
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But what's the point of that if the per capita is:

China: $890
Norway: $35,630

China is in fact richer, but they are a bunch of comies that doesn't know how to enjoy it

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 03-01-2004 06:15 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Although I generally dispute the reliability of anything appearing in the CIA World Fantasybook, I'm pretty sure China produces more than Norway does.

thesilentone is offline thesilentone
Settler
UK
Jul 2001
time: 05:33
  Old Post 03-01-2004 06:17
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Paiktis, if you hate the UK so much why not just post a thread saying so instead of constantly pulling out all this bull**** which does nothing but make you look like a troll. I mean if we want to dig further into history which matters little in todays world, why not dig up stuff that shows the brits liberating greece from the ottomans, or the germans. Or how we insisted that greece remain democratic and not fall under soviet influence when we were dividing up eastern europe with the soviet union. Sheesh.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 03-01-2004 06:18 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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He just wants his marbles back.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 03-01-2004 06:20
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quote:
But what's the point of that if the per capita is


The point is they are still richer . The average Norwegian may be able to say he has a better life, but he can't say his country may be richer.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 03-01-2004 06:21 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Richer can take both meanings, Imran.

 
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