03-01-2004 04:53									#1
	Opinions about cruise missiles Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Hail.

I would like to read tour opinions about cruise missile. The fact that AI never uses it is strange. I like to modify CruMis capacities in scenarii editor, but i would like to see expert's opinions about this weapon. Are they effective, is it interesting to produce CruMis in number? How to use it?

	03-01-2004 06:02									#2
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I never use them. Why build a missile that does only limited missile then self-destructs on impact. You may as well build bombers, that usually get a few missions before those pesky fighters pick them off.

Also, with Tactical Nukes and ICBM's not far off, I wait for them if I want to inflict some real damage.

	03-01-2004 11:25									#3
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Wow, I had forgotten Crusie missiles were in the game.

Last edited by vmxa1 on 03-01-2004 at 23:45

	03-01-2004 12:29									#4
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The civilopedia may go on about how 2 million dollar missiles can cripple/destroy 50 million dollar ships. But this is civ, and the missiles DO NOT cost a 50th the cost of a battleship here

If they did, perhaps THEN I'd care

The simple reality is, arty that destroys itself is no use, even if it CAN finish targets. The best use for these missiles, are as 'contingency plans' to rescue you if you get caught short. You certainly couldn't use them efficiently and persistently in a prolonged campaign.

	03-01-2004 13:37									#5
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Stopped using them too.

	03-01-2004 14:28									#6
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They are pretty good on taking out Units, I really wish you can load them onto subs or ships and fire them from the ship/sub. It would make landing alot safer and easier, I normally Bomb the city too hell and back damaging/killing as many units as I can, before I send ground units in.

	03-01-2004 15:59									#7
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I have only ever seen the AI use cruise missiles to defend the city that built them. It doesn't seem to move them around.

The only use I have ever made of them is to destroy naval units bombarding my coastline. Redline the ship with artillery then finish it with a cruise.

C3C where bombers have lethal sea bombardment anyway makes cruise rather unnecessary.

	03-01-2004 16:17									#8
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I use them a lot for taking cities when they become available, yes bombers have got lethal bombard on land now but they still reduce pop and damage buildings. I read the threads that say Artillery only hits units untill they are all redlined then starts to take out walls barracks etc. Thats the best use of cruise to finish them off when the Arty has redlined them. Cruise's range seems higher in conquests which is also much better than before. Bombers are best for damaging infrastructure of an enemy at long range, and wittling down enemy stacks in the open. Sure I use bombers to bombard cities too but when cruise come along you have a second option

	03-01-2004 17:51									#9
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hail.
Thanks for all your replies. I will follow your instructions and you're right: with lethal bombing, cruise missile becomes useless. I had modify the rules of the scenario to lead war attacked like it was made before desert Storm, in I99I... just for pleasure .But one time, cruise missiles saved me, I haven't many assault units (only 18 modern tanks), Russia had 40 modern tanks and 88 Mobile infantries. my tactic was simple: do what Staline did with east europe at the beginning of cold ward (i don't really find my words but i think it was called a strategic glacis). The goal was to choose the battelfield, and place him in ennemy country, by capturing the three nearest towns. But no time to attack the radars which protect the ennemy towns with my tanks. That's why i use Cruise missile, they destroyed ennemy troops on radars site, and bombers did the rest, tehey destroyed the radar itself. This plan used 18 cruise missile, but it allowed me to use ALL my tanks to atatck cities. Then i win the war. That was on PTW in monarch level.

PS : thanks for your replies, i will perform my playing thanks to you

	03-01-2004 17:57									#10
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Hail.
Just another thing. there is a little bug when i play on the same computer with my friends, in multiplayer ( turn by turn)... Only one of can see ennemy actions, the others only see results, and we often miss important things, is there anything wich can correct this problem?

	03-01-2004 23:08									#11
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Not enough experience with the lethal bombard of air units in C3C and the increased naval movement rates . . . but pre-C3C a small stack of CMs, together with arty, made for a formidable coastal defense (I suspect they may still enjoy this use with their added range, although lethal planes would usually make more sense if you can build them). Use arty to redline enemy ships and sink them with cruise missles. Using a cheap missle to take out an expensive battleship always brought a little joy to my heart in PTW. Additionally, I found the lethal bombard of the CM (when other units didn't have it) to be helpful in some limited circumstances (no oil, for instance), just as I find marines useful in some limited circumstances and, I am told , that paratroopers are also useful in some limited circumstance.

Catt

	04-01-2004 03:46									#12
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Hail.
Yes I also think Crusie missiles are not so useless...

	04-01-2004 06:35									#13
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quote: Originally posted by habib_crayen Hail. Yes I also think Crusie missiles are not so useless...

Useless is a bit harsh, but not required is about right. The small value they had before C3C was reuced even farther with lethal bombardment.

	04-01-2004 18:11									#14
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I guess the only thing cm's have going for them over building bombers is the fact that they can't get picked off by fighters that may be escorting a naval stack?

	04-01-2004 23:24									#15
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Yes that is a plus, but the limited range hurts.

	04-01-2004 23:26									#16
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Cruise missiles are a good defense for a very large empire. You can base missiles wherever, and all of them can be brought to bear on a target immediately, whereas bombers have to be rebased, and ships just take lots of time getting places.

For dealing with stacked ships though, Tactical Nukes are often more cost effective, especially since you can't pollute the ocean.

	05-01-2004 04:12									#17
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Nukes are sweet for hitting a stack of ships. That is if they are a few tiles away from land.

	05-01-2004 04:44									#18
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sounds like a good plan, but does the ai treat nukes on sea like they do on land?

I mean, even though you may wipe out a stack of ships, won't you soon find the whole world at war with you?

Doesn't it do more harm than good in the long run?

(I never nuked the sea, that is why I ask this)

	05-01-2004 05:13									#19
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Useless is a bit harsh, but not required is about right. The small value they had before C3C was reuced even farther with lethal bombardment.

You can load them onto Nuke Subs though, right?

	05-01-2004 05:39									#20
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I don't think so (unless they've changed things).

	05-01-2004 13:22									#21
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quote: Originally posted by vee4473 sounds like a good plan, but does the ai treat nukes on sea like they do on land? I mean, even though you may wipe out a stack of ships, won't you soon find the whole world at war with you? Doesn't it do more harm than good in the long run? (I never nuked the sea, that is why I ask this)

If I am in the game where I have nukes there will be either only one other civ and 1 or 2 OCC civs or I will be just goofy off.
IOW I don't have to worry about them declaring war.

That is what in fact is going on now. China and I are at war, I have nukes they don't. Two civs haved one city each and declare war after I nuke China's ships. I nuke each of the two civs for laughs. Now they have one city and 1 pop on a two or three tile island, covered with orange junk.

	05-01-2004 16:07									#22
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Just go to Editor and make a Cruise Missile with Stealth Attack and Precision Bombing ability like real CM got.
I think you will like this weapons.

	05-01-2004 17:10									#23
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I like to have one or two to bolster coastal defences.

And they also have the potential to defend less remote island outposts before a lot of airports have been built.

Although I find I usually finish the game with the ones I built unused.

They are a good unit for transfering shields from fully developed core cities to the border cities still building.

	05-01-2004 22:18									#24
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In the games I've played usually when a nuke gets used, there's a situation of world war going on already, with me either allied or at war with every other country. Besides if anyone gets mad, they find themselves on the recieving end of an ICBM.

	06-01-2004 02:47									#25
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I had modify rules to load Cm on subs and on AEGIS.

	06-01-2004 04:59									#26
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I used to use them more than now. Since C3C, I haven't had a game where I could build many of them.

They are useful to take-out ships, but now Bombers can do that.

If you are facing superior type/number units, CM's can be useful to weaken enemy stacks so that your units can finish the job, but then again, Artillery is better for that because you can reuse Arty.

They have their place, but there's usually something better.

Steven

	07-01-2004 07:18									#27
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Looking at this from the opposite viewpoint:

What good are CMs for the AI civs?

Friggin' none.

I did an IC invasion on a superior AI civ... the dope burned off all of his 10+ CMs on multiple 4xInfantry Armies (not even concentrating on one of them), and gained all of maybe 25 easily replaceable hitpoints.

As a player, I haven;t had enough recent experience with them to comment.