04-01-2004 19:31									#61
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that's simply untrue

take the explosive speed of an alligator/croc

compare that with the explosive speed of a human

the overgrown lizard will win every single time

it's not even a contest

	04-01-2004 19:41									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker the overgrown lizard will win every single time

Well, Steve Irwin's made it this long without dying, or even losing a limb. How can you account for that?

	04-01-2004 19:44									#63
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yeah and one of the Siegfried and Roy guys almost DID die

The accounting for that is OBVIOUS

	04-01-2004 20:28									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker yeah and one of the Siegfried and Roy guys almost DID die

But this isn't about siegfried and Roy, is it?

I don't think you'll ever have to worry about one of them bringing their baby to work.

	04-01-2004 20:36									#65
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the POINT is genius that they are wild animals meaning:

1) They are WILD which means they are unpredictable
2) They are 10 times stronger and faster than humans so they can easily kick our asses

Oh and by the way there are several well documented incidencts of other crocodile "handlers" getting maimed or killed by them

Then we have the inevitable circus elephants running out of control rampaging and killing people every couple of years

	04-01-2004 20:42									#66
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I don't care how experienced Irwin is, doing what he did was a stupid risk of a baby's life and he shouldn't have done it, period. All it takes is for one thing to go wrong and the kid could have been croc meat. Irwin and his wife (who had approved of it) should both be slapped with child endangerment charges.

	04-01-2004 20:59									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker the POINT is genius that they are wild animals meaning: 1) They are WILD which means they are unpredictable 2) They are 10 times stronger and faster than humans so they can easily kick our asses

The point is that the crocodile's strength lies in ambush or attacking unsuspecting or unprepared prey. This guy has been doing this for ages and has survived being attacked, chased, and bitten by crocodiles. I think he understands them pretty well - even if it is just an understanding that they are unpredictable and you have to be prepared for anything.

	04-01-2004 21:08									#68
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There is a difference between Erwin and Roy. Crocs are never tame, therefore you are always on your guard. Roy got lazy and sloppy around a "tamed" wild animal. Regardless of the fact that it was raised by humans and that S&R treat the cats like their babies, they are still, deep down, wild animals, and will, if push comes to shove, react like wild animals.

When Roy got attacked, it was a dominance play on the cats part. He was not being dragged off stage to be protected like a kitten, but because the tiger was taking him someplace more private to finish the job. Big cats (lions excepted) don't like to eat out in the open where they are vulnerable. S&R were just making something up to try and save the tiger. No other animal expert agreed with their lame story.

	05-01-2004 04:05									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Do note that crocs only move fast when coming out of the water, not when wallowing on land.

Sorry, wrong again - a saltwater croc can outrun anything in a short burst on land. They are ambush predators. Consider this chilling little factoid.

quote: CNN news anchor Kyra Phillips, at the end of presenting a story about the Croc Hunter incident, offered this fact about the speed and danger posed by crocodiles. "Chew on this fact," Phillips told her audience. "A crocodilian biology database says these reptiles can lunge at a rate of 39 feet per second, for a quarter of a second. That's fast enough to capture prey standing within one body length before it even has time to react."

As for Irwin and his shows, tricks are used to make the croc docile enough to approach. Two common ones are to the feed the animal up before the show or put it in cold water. Crocodiles are cold blooded and become sluggish when cold. The same tricks are widely used for snake shows. Put the cobra in a refrigerator for a few minutes and its not going to bite anyone.

	05-01-2004 05:03									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Crocs generally don't lunge forward. If it did, it'd gnaw on his leg first. It's not a wise move, but he probably knows more about crocs than you know about beer.

Well said, and you should see what his daughter gets up to....

Bloody media can go get a lump of wood and bash themselves repea...

	05-01-2004 05:06									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld The point is that the crocodile's strength lies in ambush or attacking unsuspecting or unprepared prey. This guy has been doing this for ages and has survived being attacked, chased, and bitten by crocodiles. I think he understands them pretty well - even if it is just an understanding that they are unpredictable and you have to be prepared for anything.

Like they say with stocks, past performance is no guarantee of future success. There are numerous accounts of trained "professionals" getting their asses kicked by wild animals, including crocodiles. It doesn't matter HOW good you think he is.

He had another person's life with him. A defenseless little baby. That baby had no choice in the matter.

That's it. PERIOD

Look at a place like Malawi where 2 people die A DAY from crocodiles.

	05-01-2004 05:25									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker He had another person's life with him. A defenseless little baby. That baby had no choice in the matter.

Babies have no choice about anything, and people put them at risk everyday. The smoking example from before, for instance. Or, hell, what about taking them in a car? Statistically speaking, that's probably one of the more riskier things you could do with a baby.

	05-01-2004 05:37									#73
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of course they don't have choice that's the whole point!

so I'd hardly say holding them in front of a damn crocodile is a smart thing to do!

Secondly there are necessary and unneccessary risks. Sometimes people have no choice but to put the baby in the car since in most places a car is a necessity.

But putting them in front of an alligator!!!

	05-01-2004 06:38									#74
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Crocodile.

	05-01-2004 06:38									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld Babies have no choice about anything, and people put them at risk everyday. The smoking example from before, for instance. Or, hell, what about taking them in a car? Statistically speaking, that's probably one of the more riskier things you could do with a baby.

Not really. The reason that automobile accidents rate so highly in causing infant deaths is that many infants often ride in cars, perhaps several times a day. I doubt that enough infants are used in publicity stunts involving live crocodiles for a statistically valid sample to be gathered.

	05-01-2004 09:02									#76
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true libertarians think that babies and crocs should fend for themselves.

	05-01-2004 09:17									#77
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Aside from the Croc the other concern which any parent would have picked up from the footage is the way he handled the one month old baby. The way he jiggled it around, making it pretend to run etc. could cause brain injury. You need to keep their head stable and still at all times. He didn't support the baby's head at all.

Having a baby out the tropical sun could have caused dehydration or heat stress. I was stunned by that - you'd never catch me with a child out in that tropical heat.

All in all, a really unbelievable performance from a "devoted father" with the experience of one child already. This guy would do anything for publicity, even put his own baby son at risk.

	05-01-2004 09:21									#78
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quote: Originally posted by TCO true libertarians think that babies and crocs should fend for themselves.

	05-01-2004 10:09									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Sorry, wrong again - a saltwater croc can outrun anything in a short burst on land. They are ambush predators. Consider this chilling little factoid.

You may want to note that what you quoted is generally not considered running. Besides, Philips did not specify which database mentioned that, so we could not look up any specifics even if we wanted to.

It made for good rating, but completely useless for any serious discussions.

	05-01-2004 10:11									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger You may want to note that what you quoted is generally not considered running.

Worst argument, evah...

	05-01-2004 10:12									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Aside from the Croc the other concern which any parent would have picked up from the footage is the way he handled the one month old baby. The way he jiggled it around, making it pretend to run etc. could cause brain injury. You need to keep their head stable and still at all times. He didn't support the baby's head at all. Having a baby out the tropical sun could have caused dehydration or heat stress. I was stunned by that - you'd never catch me with a child out in that tropical heat. All in all, a really unbelievable performance from a "devoted father" with the experience of one child already. This guy would do anything for publicity, even put his own baby son at risk.

Note how Horsie shifted his angle of attack.

	05-01-2004 10:14									#82
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It was an attack? Ban him!

	05-01-2004 10:16									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Note how Horsie shifted his angle of attack.

Horsie is providing complementary evidence to the ineptitude of Irwin as a father.

Everyone else is too busy noting your lack of "angle of attack". As usual, you post a rather inane "troll" and subsequent posts are filled with nothing but hot air, until you begin ignoring the thread a post or two later.

	05-01-2004 10:25									#84
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Nice, polite personal attack Asher.
A tactful way to force UR to wait for MtG

	05-01-2004 10:27									#85
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I figure if UR can say I have a small **** and not get in trouble, what I said is absolutely legit.

	05-01-2004 10:29									#86
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Don't know that much about crocs.....but they do go for live food yes? That would mean live wiggeling food? Couldn't that baby be perceived as food to the croc? They don't know the difference again WILD being the operative word here. I mean really how much difference is there between the size of a good sized wiggleing chicken or turkey and a 1 month old wiggeling baby.

For shame Mr. Irwin

	05-01-2004 10:49									#87
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Mmm? From what I saw of the footage they weren't exactly presented to the croc as equal opportunity alternatives.

It didn't look terribly dangerous and I'm sure the clod would've thrown himself in the crocs way had he slipped or somesuch, but it was a rather poorly planned publicity stunt all the same.

	05-01-2004 11:02									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I figure if UR can say I have a small **** and not get in trouble, what I said is absolutely legit.

Wow. Link?

	05-01-2004 11:10									#89
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http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...040#post2598040

	05-01-2004 11:15									#90
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Glad to see the feuds continue to spice up our ordinary 'Polyite lives