03-01-2004 23:11									#1
	Speed Trancend Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Its that old favorite - the speed transcend game

I'm playing with one small tweak, a TIME limit I'm allowing 4 hours per game, that means using some automation later on. 2240 is my best so far this way.

Anyway, I was wondering what the best settings/faction/map size are for a fast transcend, and if its possible to get under 2200 without counting the mineral rows and mass ICS. Any ideas?

My gut feeling is that this is easiest on a standard size map (lower tech costs, but still some room to sprawl) with the University, using fairly tight spacing, not a fixed pattern, and making 3 super science bases. (because 1 tech per turn is too slow, I want 3 per turn in the last 5-10 years before transcending.)

I'm not sure about the difficulty level. A low level saves time on drone problems, but a high level means the AI can help a bit. Hmmm.

Any ideas? I've got to get under 2200, and without dragging my heels either.

-Jam

	03-01-2004 23:33									#2
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IIRC the fastest were on smaller maps-- perhaps tiny

2167 seems to ring a bell as the fastest--

	04-01-2004 00:50									#3
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I thought something like that
But that was probably planned to death, and took days. I'm trying to get under 100 turns, playing "seat of the pants" as practise for IP gaming

So, new game, tiny map, citizen level, University, GO!

-Jam

	04-01-2004 03:19									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

So, that was faster.

2234 on a tiny map, taking 2 1/2 hours to transcend. Wheee!

-Jam

	04-01-2004 07:49									#5
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I normally transcend around the 2250s.
However, I have known myself to average a tech a turn since the game started, 2183 is my record I believe.
It was on an extra tiny map, I trounced the nearby comps early, giving me free reign over transcend time.

	04-01-2004 15:08									#6
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I think the fastest transcends were done using factions like Spartans or Gaians on tiny maps, with the idea of conquering all the other factions and then using them to research for you. I've only played one speed transcend game with the University and that was on a huge map (transcended in 2208). The best time I've seen on a huge map was done by zsozso, who transcended in 2194. For more information on the fast transcends, check out this thread.

	04-01-2004 20:32									#7
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Yeah, I know that thread. They were all massive games, though, with loads of bean counting and massive ICS - my aim is a fast transcend in minutes, hours and seconds. I have a stopwatch by the computer, and I'm going to press stop whenever I need a toilet break, or the phone rings or something...

Wheeeee, you guys should try this. Its quite an adrenaline blast

-Jam

	05-01-2004 03:36									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Transcend in 2224 today taking 3 hours 21 minutes on Talent level, tiny map, University. I'm not happy with that game, I'm sure I can do better. I think a LOT depends on the starting location.

-Jam

	05-01-2004 05:06									#9
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You can have all sorts of different transcend times but unless you are all starting with the same game it is like comparing apples and oranges.

On regular sized worlds, pod scattering on, transcend level, default settings including random maps, I have trouble breaking 2250. But I haven't tried timing myself. I suspect that to be under 4 hours I'd be playing way worse.

	05-01-2004 09:18									#10
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

FWIW my best time was 2196 on a huge map (Sikander's, which was used quite often). But it certainly took more than 4 hours, probably more like 16 . On a decent tiny map 2170-2180 is easy if you can manage speedy world conquest by ~2120-2130.

On standard and larger maps and with a good research faction (Zak, Morgan, CC) I feel comfortable with 2220 transendance. But shaving these extra 20 years is hard and I cannot imagine pre-2200 transcend without intensive micromanagement during at least first 50 years. [Later on the loss of efficiency due to integer waste of research beakers dwarfs any gains from micromanagement, imho]. But one certainly needs a good start. Actually I find that good terrain, while nice, is not that important (as long as you have a good chunk of it) but finding the others and getting elected pronto is very important.

	05-01-2004 20:36									#11
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

So the plan is to conquer the world first, before going mad.... hmmm. All my attempts so far have been with minimum forces, no war, always give the AI presents. Moving millitary units will really increase the time needed though... hmmm

I guess my next attempt must be trying to conquer the world in 30 turns on a tiny map, and then trying to transcend before 2200. Maybe that will go over 4 hours, but we'll see, eh?

-Jam

	05-01-2004 23:51									#12
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Yes, on a tiny (mostly land) map with some rivers world conquest with Spartans should take ~20-30 turns and 5-6 recon rovers. You start with one rover. Researching Applied Physics with a river start takes 2 turns. Make some recon rovers and hopefully you'll get a couple of unity rovers from pods. That's enough of an attack force during first 20 turns since most AI cities will not even be defended that early. The idea is to make them all submissive rather than destroying them outright.

Yang and Morgan may require impact rovers but if you find them fast they may not be necessary.

Once they are all submissive, give them all your techs and coordinate their research. Later on you may want to swap some cities so that everyone has roughly the same number of cities (to maximize commerce). That way you'll research fast and AIs will research relatively fast, too. You don't need to ICS or anything - 4-6 cities should be enough.

	06-01-2004 00:18									#13
	Remove this text

That's the kind of start you are looking for (it' SMAC, not SMAX).

Attachment: santi_21.sav
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	06-01-2004 18:46									#14
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I can't get it to download can you mail it to j_maunders AT yahoo.co.uk please?

-Jam

	07-01-2004 06:22									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Thankyou - I got it

-Jam