04-01-2004 04:30									#1
	Umm, how much ecodamge is too much ecodamage? Get a bigger avatar today!

Is THAT too much ecodamage for example? This caused sea levels to rise 1,200 metres in 20 years (with the other similar bases) Whoops. No amount of tree-farms will deal with that. Oh, as for the fungal pops, I cleared all the fungus in sight, and trimmed it regularly.

-Jam

	04-01-2004 05:20									#2
	Full PM-box? Change here!

250 treefarms would deal with that quite nicely

I regularly run minerals into the hundreds with 0 ED, once my bases have mad production i just keep building CPs then selling them all every so often and repeating. With 10 bases able to build a CP in two turns (buy in one for 90 credits) it doesn't really take long to get minerals above 200 while remaining clean.

Altough there isn't really any such thing as too much ED, the income from worms is very good. (altough if you have cash and minerals coming out of your ears then the cash wont help much... but it's good in OCC's)

	04-01-2004 06:21									#3
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I find its more effienent to scrub the fungus away thatn have 10 core bases devoted to building and selling stuff. These are the bases that should be shooting up hundreds of satellites or masses of 'copters. In this game I had a handful of land-bases like this one with HUGE minerals, and then dozens of size-seven sea-bases fed with satellites and filled with specialists. A kinda experment. I didn't have the many bases that could do nothing with Cent. Preserves. Well, the sea bases could, but they were all a bit mineral poor - all specialists, no t-forming...

-Jam

	05-01-2004 09:55									#4
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Nice

Still, IMO it's way more productive to just do that with energy instead of minerals. You can just buy everything in 1 turn with energy to spare (that doesn't dissappear like the extra minerals do) and no ecodamage.

	05-01-2004 11:44									#5
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If your build and sell a sky hydro farm/nessus mining station/orbital power transmitter, does its effects persist like the centauri preserve/treefarm/hybrid forest etc.?

	05-01-2004 12:26									#6
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Cool, Jamski, but I agree w/Busta-- energy is more important at this stage.

Ya know, if you really wanted to impress, your minerals double when building an orbital improvement, if you have... what is it again? Space Elevator? I love that project.

Good question, #endgame.

	05-01-2004 13:33									#7
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How many volcanoes did you get - just curious.

	05-01-2004 14:22									#8
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An even better question would be: How can you sell an orbital when it's attached to no base in particular?

You may think getting clean minerals up to 250 is unfeasable, but its not that hard. My average empire will consist of around 20 fully decked bases, the TF"s and HF's alone bring the limit up by 40. Then I have around another 20 bases with TF's and prehaps HF's, some of these bases are gifted to the AI. So it's reasonable I'll have a clean limit of about 80 before doing anything weird.

So I have my 20 bases with more production than god and I have more cash than god too (god isn't into such materialistic things). If I cant figure out what I want to build, I just build a CP! Then if I notice lots of bases already have CP's, I do sell all. I dont dedicate bases to CP production (thats a misconception), I just slip the odd CP into bases queues. But with 20 odd bases producing enough minerals to complete a CP in two turns (1 turn with a 90 cash rush) it doesn't take long at all to build a hundred CP's.

I admit it's fairly hard to spend all the production and cash, altough raw production above 50 is very good for producing entire shard choppers and stuff, cutting out all that build shell/upgrade nonsense. I don't abuse crawlers and definitely not the crawler upgrade cheat so if I find the cash is overflowing I sink it into SP's, altough SP's dont cost that much cash so I also give the odd 1000 cash gift to my favourite AI pets so they can squander it on useless things. In general obscene amounts of cash can be sunk into AI Faction reconstruction initiatves, a base with effective infrastructure all rushed in costs somewhere between 1000 and 2000 cash.

Last edited by Blake on 05-01-2004 at 14:36

	05-01-2004 20:42									#9
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Maybe I wanted to build a whole load of 24-12-8 gravships. Actually the plan was to build all the SPs in one base. Most pleasing when an SP is taking 2-3 turns to build

-Jam

	05-01-2004 22:24									#10
	Inflate your Upload Space

2 to 3! turns ? bah
You need a lesson in industry from Mr.Yang

	06-01-2004 18:44									#11
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

OK, Laz, show me a base with 500+ minerals per turn

-Jam

	06-01-2004 23:36									#12
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Would do if i had my old saves used to regularly have dozens of core bases on atleast that sort of minerals, it doesnt take that many crawls with all the later mineral +50%'s and sats with high pop to push way into 1000+

*waits for somebody to go into scenario editor

	07-01-2004 02:50									#13
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Well with no crawlers at all, just 6 boreholes and the rest of base radius forest you get 47 food and 69 minerals. Add orbitals and thats 47 + 69 minerals = 116, then facilities brings the total to something around 350.

With 6 boreholes and the rest condensor/enrichers you get 90 food and 49 minerals, 139 with orbitals, facilities brings the total to around 420.

Both cases assume a reasonable distribution of flat/rolling and special resources . You can see that bases can reach very high levels of production even without mineral crawlers.

	07-01-2004 04:41									#14
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

As blake points out, there's no need to suffer any ED even with a ludicrous amount of mineral income, just build and scrap Centauri Preserves until your clean mineral cap exceeds your mineral production.

As far as I'm concerned, any eco-damage which results in rising sea levels and subsequent washing of my shoreline improvements is too much. A better approach is to build more bases, and refocus harvesting efforts into energy, since energy is magnified more effectively with little drawbacks, and you can upgrade any unit and rush any facility you need with ECs.

	07-01-2004 04:59									#15
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

But what a huge waste of build turn queues.

	07-01-2004 06:04									#16
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Also its a dirty exploit, and not the way ecodamage was intended to work.

-Jam

	07-01-2004 06:36									#17
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: But what a huge waste of build turn queues.

You have to face it, by then the choice is what to waste your build queues on. I usually find I can build a world-dominating military in just a few turns.

Also if you have, 20 bases, increasing minerals at all bases by 1, means 20 more minerals per turn. CP's cost what? 80? 100? Something around there. Turns to pay-back, 4 or 5, if you sell it, ~3. Waste? If building crawlers is a waste, then building CP's is too

Obviously anyone getting minerals into the high hundreds is doing so for the sake of it, they can build and sell CP's for precisely the same reason.

	27-03-2004 13:57									#18
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Save the Whales! (for dessert)

So this baby harp seal walks into a club ...

What's the hardest part of an endangered species to eat?
The radio collar.

How many dalmations does it take to make a fur coat?
Who cares?

How many baby harp seals does it take to make a fur coat?
Depends on when you ran out of dalmations.

Why are there no stray pigs in America?
The same reason there are no stray cats in Vietnam.

What do followers of the religious right and animal rights have in common?
Both pray for animals. ("Bless you, Lord, for this bounty we are about to receive ...")

Why do endangered species taste like chicken?
If they were better than chicken they'd already be extinct.

Where is the best place to shoot an endangered species?
Inside the barn.

But that's nothing compared to Jamski's 549 damage rating ... trying to start a fusion reaction in Chiron's core, or are we just sick of the one remaining week per year of cold weather?

	27-03-2004 18:45									#19
	Remove this text

I needed more sea bases

-Jam

	27-03-2004 23:23									#20
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is that your "actual" mineral production, or are you building an orbial improvement with the space elevator?

	28-03-2004 00:58									#21
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You expect me to remember that? Actually this base was ONLY building SPs at this stage of the game, and expensive facs.

-Jam

	29-03-2004 06:13									#22
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pish. Space elevator double mineral production when building sats. If that's what you're doing, then I scoff at your feeble efforts. Not that I don't anyways

If you're trying to impress me, you've failed

	29-03-2004 10:13									#23
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Jamski has discovered that if the groundhog drowns in his hole there will be no more weeks of winter.

	29-03-2004 12:54									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Also its a dirty exploit, and not the way ecodamage was intended to work.

Amen!

	08-04-2004 06:54									#25
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

After I finish laughing.... I'll come back tomorrow. Expect Mr. Morgan to punish you badly for your foolish economy! Question: Besides Genejack, which is horrible to me, did you use punishment, or Drone-riot elimination project whose name I can't remember? I vote second!

	08-04-2004 12:21									#26
	Inflate your Upload Space

Damn Jamski....

....the highest I ever got was 450.

	08-04-2004 12:32									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Blake 250 treefarms would deal with that quite nicely I regularly run minerals into the hundreds with 0 ED, once my bases have mad production i just keep building CPs then selling them all every so often and repeating. With 10 bases able to build a CP in two turns (buy in one for 90 credits) it doesn't really take long to get minerals above 200 while remaining clean. Altough there isn't really any such thing as too much ED, the income from worms is very good. (altough if you have cash and minerals coming out of your ears then the cash wont help much... but it's good in OCC's)

how does that work. building then selling? I have never heard of this (I guess) exploit

	08-04-2004 12:54									#28
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

If you buy and sell a facility that lowers eco damage, the eco damage drop stays but the facility doesn't. If you built it again, eco damage goes even lower.

	08-04-2004 12:56									#29
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Dissident how does that work. building then selling? I have never heard of this (I guess) exploit

It is according to Jamski

quote: Orginally posted by Jamski Also its a dirty exploit, and not the way ecodamage was intended to work.

I agree.

	08-04-2004 13:28									#30
	Get a bigger avatar today!

sounds cheasy to me.

Really, I have never needed that much production anyways. Overkill.