05-01-2004 06:16									#1
	DESIGN: Unit Values Inflate your Upload Space

First of all im not just spamming out "Design" threads just for the sake of it, i want to save some time when it comes to testing, so i can make changes to terrains, tile imps, buildings, wonder, units and whatever else, then test altogether.

So anyway, first of all i think 2 things need to be changed,

1) Faster Range/Flanker/Attack units need to be made weaker over their contemporary slower Defensive/Range units.

Example: 6 Knights 6 M. Archers, i can attack you pretty much anywhere and with relative force, so what if youve got 2 stacks of Pikeman and Catapults, theyre on the other side of your civ.

You may retake your cities, but what damage have i done, and i can move out of those cities and dance around your slow units, taking cities anywhere.

I dont think ive EVER built or seen any player better than me build a Catapult... ok maybe once or twice, this is not just due to the cost of Cats but theyre so slow. Unless youre fighting on entirely swamps or jungles (where Knights move 1 too) theres no point.

2) Flankers need their Ranged ability lowering alot, you know which ones im talking about, Cavalry and Tanks, they totally dominate the game.

Generally, units that cant defend fast and attack fast are useless, as the units currently stand, i mean so what if a Catapult can bombard, its 20 moves away from the action. Even if you do build up 4 stacks of Cannons Infantryman, they see you coming, even 5 turns gives them ample time to defend, waiting to ambush you with bombarding stacks.

Obviously fast units need to be weaker, perhaps even cost more to support. Id like to see slower, stronger units become the mainstay of attack and defence.

Anyway i had some other ideas but theyve gone now, hopefully they will return....

Last edited by Maquiladora on 05-01-2004 at 06:39

	05-01-2004 07:36									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Its a good idea to get ideas going on the basics now... we get a chance to reexamine everything, thoroughly.

Agreed on the catapults... I use them playing SP, merely because its nice to exploit the AI with.

If city defense is suitably beefed up, then bombard units... I.E. not flanking/fast... should be the counter to that.

Also, maybe the 1MP offensive/defensive units should have higher hitpoints than the fast/flanking units.

We need to look at the HP issue... so that the military standing setting (E.G. At War) isn't a futile setting too.

	05-01-2004 14:27									#3
	Got spare money?

quote: If city defense is suitably beefed up, then bombard units... I.E. not flanking/fast... should be the counter to that.

By city defence do you mean City Walls? Because my point was that you cant be everywhere at once with Catapults/Pikemen, but you certainly can be with Knights/M.Archers.

Make Knights (more of) a luxury unit, i mean Horses and men in armour cant be mass produced like a single Pikeman can. Ideally, id like to see ONE Hoplite, behind City Walls, able to fend off 2 Knights........ Hoplites are usually standard garrison in every city by that stage, so cities with Walls should be realistically safe from a surprise attack of 2 Knights appearing from a Longship.

I agree that we need more varying HP's for units too, and we shouls scrap the armour rating altogether.

	14-01-2004 18:57									#4
	Increase Your PM Length

I aggree for the flankers in my lasted unreleased of GoodMod I weaken the flankers.

-Martin

	15-01-2004 01:02									#5
	Tired of ads?

What do you feel about removing the armour rating and only using varying hit points?

	15-01-2004 02:05									#6
	Remove this text

They didn't have the armour rating in CTP1 but put it in to CTP2 to keep spearmen from killing tanks. This is from the CTC Great Library. Most of it is from the manual but I think I dredged some of it up from somewhere else:

quote: Attack: Represents the units's probability of a successful attack. The higher the attack rating the greater the chance that the unit will hit it's target. Ranged: Represents the probability of a successful ranged attack. Defense: Represents the unit's ability to avoid being hit. The higher the rating, the easier it is for the unit to avoid or deflect attacks. Armor: Indicates the unit's ability to withstand a successful attack. The higher the rating, the less damage a unit takes when attacked. Damage (Strength, or Firepower): Represents the amount of damage a unit inflicts with each successful attack. Vision: The radius of the unit's circle of vision. Movement: How many tiles the unit can move. Max Hit Points: The health of a unit is represented by a coloured bar that appears over the flag next to the unit itself. Green indicates good health, yellow indicates some damage, and red indicates severe damage. Each time a unit is successfully attacked, its health is reduced accordingly and the colour and length of the health bar changes to reflect it. If the damage from an attack exceeds the unit's health, the unit dies.

	15-01-2004 02:49									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

But 1 armour = 10 HP, so in effect all they did was increase the HP of Tanks to 30 HP (3 Armour) and Hoplites 10 HP (1 Armour).

I think i see your point for keeping Armour (if thats what your point was ) so that the green/yellow/red health bar remains constant on the scale of 1-10 (all units have 10HP in vanilla game) so it goes down in stages of 1/10th with all units.

My main point is that increments of 10, 20, 30 HP (1,2,3 etc armour) is too strong an effect..... you can solve this and balance units better by removing armour rating and use only HP for more precise armour, 7, 12, 23.

I dont know, maybe im an old civ in some ways, i miss proper hit points.

I also dug out the combat simulator i made with help from Locutus.

Attachment: ctp2_combat_sim_final_1.zip
This has been downloaded 8 time(s).

	14-10-2004 05:48									#8
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I would very much like to see the cruise missile changed, as it is now its very impotent and not worth spendig time on.

If it could be used as a special weapon that can target improvements or units or even pillage a road, anything that might be usefull.

Or maybe it just needs to be stronger and/or cheaper.