06-01-2004 20:35									#1
	French divers caught trying to modify black box from red sea crash area! Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Can't find the news story now. But when they said it was because of a power failure, 5 minutes after the crash happened, something sounded strange to me.

It didnt say what they were trying to do the black box, erase it or change it, but it sounds like a cover up to me.

	06-01-2004 21:00									#2
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Why would they want to cover up something like that? and find the story first...

	06-01-2004 21:19									#3
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French elections are coming up, Chirac might not want evidence of a terrorist attack entering the news.

	06-01-2004 21:22									#4
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Cannot be too suspicious when the French are involved.

The fact that the divers where on the spot 5 minutes (according to My Wife Hates CIV) after the crash tells VOLUMES.

	06-01-2004 21:23									#5
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Hows about that the airline had been banned from swiss airspace cos it was dangerous. It doesnt look good that the french allowed it to fly there.

	06-01-2004 21:35									#6
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There were 3 safety checks afterwards and all of the planes passed flawlessly. So why shouldn't they be allowed to fly, as far as the french governement is concerned ?

And last i heard was that the black boxes of the plane lay in 1000 meter deep water, well outside of the reach of the minisubs they are using to retrieve parts of the aitplane.

	06-01-2004 21:37									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi French elections are coming up, Chirac might not want evidence of a terrorist attack entering the news.

Why not? It's not as if the French haven't been working very hard in the WoT. Even if they disagree with us about Iraq, they have been hard at work tracking down AQ and the others who actually do present a danger to the U.S. and the rest of the West.

	06-01-2004 22:03									#8
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quote: Originally posted by dannubis There were 3 safety checks afterwards and all of the planes passed flawlessly. So why shouldn't they be allowed to fly, as far as the french governement is concerned ? And last i heard was that the black boxes of the plane lay in 1000 meter deep water, well outside of the reach of the minisubs they are using to retrieve parts of the aitplane.

Given that a plane just crashed into the sea killing 150 odd people, passing 'flawlessly' seems a little strange to me. Maybe its a question of who's standards you use? AFAIK the swiss hadnt let them back in.

This isnt intended as a finger pointing exercise by me at the french BTW.

	06-01-2004 22:53									#9
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Any links yet?

	07-01-2004 10:32									#10
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They couldn't even retrieve the black box since it's at least 600m down.

	07-01-2004 10:40									#11
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Hows about that the airline had been banned from swiss airspace cos it was dangerous. It doesnt look good that the french allowed it to fly there.

The French allowed it to fly where?

Wasn't the plane travelling in Egyptian airspace between two points in Egypt, owned by an Egyptian airline?

	07-01-2004 11:06									#12
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Some things about this crash are very suspicious.

When a jet crashes in deep water, there are things you expect to find. The wings are typically largely intact and separated from the body. There should be a slick. There should be at least some intact bodies and luggage.

There was none of that. Just small pieces of plane and bodies -- appently, even the seat cushions were shredded -- and no slick, or a very small one. The plane had just taken off -- what happened to all the fuel?

Also, no distress call. That plane was in freefall for all of seventeen seconds, had just taken off (and so must have still been in radio contact), and not so much as a "mayday".

How long does it take to say "mayday"?

	07-01-2004 11:23									#13
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What the **** is going on here

	07-01-2004 11:49									#14
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Also, no distress call. That plane was in freefall for all of seventeen seconds, had just taken off (and so must have still been in radio contact), and not so much as a "mayday". How long does it take to say "mayday"?

Posiibly because the crash was caused by a loss of electricity? No electricity = no distress call.

	07-01-2004 12:17									#15
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Somehow, I don't see the radio not having a battery backup.

But let's say there isn't. Let's say the the plane lost power and simply dropped.

What happened to all that fuel?

	07-01-2004 12:57									#16
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Who caught 'em, Egyptian divers?

	07-01-2004 13:05									#17
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Somehow, I don't see the radio not having a battery backup.

There are many reasons to electric failures. If there's a break in the circuit somewhere, backup could well be useless.

quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk What happened to all that fuel?

In the fuel tanks?

	07-01-2004 13:11									#18
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You're suggesting the tanks remained intact?

	07-01-2004 13:32									#19
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quote: Originally posted by DAVOUT Cannot be too suspicious when the French are involved. The fact that the divers where on the spot 5 minutes (according to My Wife Hates CIV) after the crash tells VOLUMES.

It's nice to find another who knows the value of a well-made tinfoil hat.

	07-01-2004 16:08									#20
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quote: Hows about that the airline had been banned from swiss airspace cos it was dangerous.

there was a report here that the Swiss ban had something to do with money, not safety.

	07-01-2004 16:22									#21
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The French government was very eager to say it was not a terror attack, as is usual in such a situation. According to our great conservatives, the role of a Statesman is to "reassure" after all, to make sure the common man has nothing to fear

Maybethe accidentwas a terror attack, and the French government(with the help of the Egyptians) will tryto cover a lie Maybe it was a real accident with unclear circumstances. Maybe some of the info we read in the thread is about as valid as the conspiracy theories we heard on the attack on the Pentagon. We don't know.

	07-01-2004 16:24									#22
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Why not?

Chirac does notwant a climate of fear nora climate of Islamophobia to spread right before the elections. We fear Le Pen's score in the next elections enough already, and a terror attack will only make him stronger.

	07-01-2004 16:32									#23
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has lepen's support grown since the last time?

	07-01-2004 16:36									#24
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quote: Originally posted by C0ckney has lepen's support grown since the last time?

We don't know for sure (polls are a poor indication of Le Pen's support, only votes allow for a real measure)

But we fear it has gron strongly: Chirac has disappointed the population, and the Left doesn't look like an alternative, because it does only indulge in infighting between top politicians, rather than a real opposition to Chirac's policies.

As suc, there is the strong chance that only Le Pen and the extreme left wil stand out and seduce the voter.

	07-01-2004 16:48									#25
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aren't the presidential elections some way off though?

	07-01-2004 16:58									#26
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The presidential elections as well as the parliamentary elections are way off (2007), but there will be two semi-local elections as well as the European elections in the coming months. Le Pen may end up with the second most populated region of France, and with a bunch of MEPs, if the rest of the political community can't get its **** straight

	07-01-2004 17:56									#27
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse The French allowed it to fly where? Wasn't the plane travelling in Egyptian airspace between two points in Egypt, owned by an Egyptian airline?

So you figure that a flight filled with french tourists didnt originate in France?

	07-01-2004 18:01									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus there was a report here that the Swiss ban had something to do with money, not safety.

We know the planes had a number of serious incidents including engine fires. From the very little info thats available, it looks as though either the French officials ignored reasonable warnings from the Swiss (who wouldnt reinstate the airline despite 'passing' the safety requirements) or the Swiss were being nasty and the French knew it.

	07-01-2004 18:05									#29
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The BBC website has this article on the 737's safety record. It isn't a bad record but, like most other airliners, they fall out of the sky occasionally.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3366199.stm

quote: The British aviation expert David Learmount said the safety record of the Egyptian carrier involved in Saturday's crash, Flash Airlines, appeared to be good. But he recalled that there had been other recent incidents involving 737s elsewhere on the continent. "There were incidentally in Africa last year - in Algeria and Sudan - two 737s that crashed just after take-off, like this one did," Mr Learmount said. "In those cases we have pretty good information now that they both involved engine failure - possibly something else as well, but at least engine failures." There has also been a history of problems with the 737's rudder systems. In October 2002 the Federal Aviation Administration in the United States ordered American carriers to replace them after rudder failure was blamed for crashes in Colorado in 1991 and Pennsylvania in 1994 in which a total of 157 people died. The carriers were given six years to comply with the order and foreign carriers were expected to voluntarily follow suit.

It is worth remembering that aircraft do crash for reasons other than terrorism.

Statistically, flying may be the safest form of transport but when it goes wrong it usually goes very wrong.

Then again questions about safety are the last thing Boeing need right now as Airbus outsold them in 2003.

	07-01-2004 18:10									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor The presidential elections as well as the parliamentary elections are way off (2007), but there will be two semi-local elections as well as the European elections in the coming months. Le Pen may end up with the second most populated region of France, and with a bunch of MEPs, if the rest of the political community can't get its **** straight

And the masses shall flock to him...yeah right