07-01-2004 18:41									#1
	AI naval bombardment Remove this text

Bombers are fine; they're dangerous and if the AI has them and you don't nor any air defence you're in trouble.

Ships on the other hand don't seem to pose the same threat in the hands of the AI as aircraft. Is not that they don't have the potential to do so, it's just the way they're currently coded that prevents them from being the threat they should be.

For instance, like land artillery, for some reason naval bombardment always targets the defending units first and will never destroy city improvements if defending units still have health other than the coastal fortress - which is arguably the most useless improvement in the game. If you want to protect your cities just pack them with land units and a barracks and AI naval bombardment will never hurt you.

So how to remedy this? Simple - there are several ways:

1. Under the current AI tactic of always targeting cities, one could make them more like bombers... In other words have the potential to destroy improvements in cities even though defending units have health remaining. At the moment the only time they can do this is if all the defenders are on their last health bar.

2. One could program the AI to bombard cities and bombard improved land tiles. Creating craters all over your land would be much more effective and troublesome to the human player. The only time the AI would bombard cities would then be if they were accompanying an invasion force. In this situation it might be advantageous for the defenders to be weakened by a preemptive naval bombardment.

Obviously this doesn't apply to the human player because they can pick and choose what they bombard depending on the immediate need.

Don't even get me started on the use of land artillery by the AI...

Thoughts?

	07-01-2004 19:33									#2
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There is that Collateral Damage tag in the Editor. I wonder if they could switch that on for all the naval ships able to bombard. Then, as i understand it, they could potentially damage units AND improvements/surrounding terrain with each bombardment...

In the interim that might add a little excitement for very little developer work.....

	08-01-2004 10:54									#3
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Has anyone tried using that tag?

	08-01-2004 18:42									#4
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It doesn't work for bombardments. It does it's damage after a successful regular attack. It was designed to make the barbarians in the Fall of Rome more dangerous.

	08-01-2004 22:26									#5
	Re: AI naval bombardment Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by =DrJambo= Don't even get me started on the use of land artillery by the AI...

the AI uses land artillery??

I never seen artillery beeing bulit by the AI, the only way they get their hand on some is if they happen to capture some of mine

	09-01-2004 09:35									#6
	Re: Re: AI naval bombardment Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Fatwreck the AI uses land artillery?? I never seen artillery beeing bulit by the AI, the only way they get their hand on some is if they happen to capture some of mine

I've seen it built. The only problem is that its rarely used.

	09-01-2004 12:18									#7
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I have captured lots of their arties in CivIII/PTW and C3C.

	09-01-2004 20:30									#8
	Re: AI naval bombardment Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by =DrJambo= For instance, like land artillery, for some reason naval bombardment always targets the defending units first and will never destroy city improvements if defending units still have health other than the coastal fortress - which is arguably the most useless improvement in the game. If you want to protect your cities just pack them with land units and a barracks and AI naval bombardment will never hurt you.

You don't even have to put 'land units' in your city. If there are 'naval' units in your city, those will be targeted even BEFORE the land units.

If the AI has some ships off your coast and is bombarding your city, just build whichever 'cheap' ship you can and it will absorb all the 'incomming' shells up to it's last hit point (since non-leathal sea bombard). If you have a Harbor, it will be fully healed the next turn (assuming it's Fortified) and your city will never be bombed from the sea. AND, your defenders won't suffer damage. Just build enough ships so that you have enough hit points to 'catch' all the bombs.

I would almost think that was an Exploit, except that the AI will use this--although I don't think it does so by choice.

I discovered this whilst trying to bombard the Byzantines. I had several Battleships off their coast and was trying to weaken their defenders so that my MA would have an easier time taking the city. I bombarded that same -bleeping- Carrier for several turns. It just kept catching all my shells!!!!

Steven

	09-01-2004 21:54									#9
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 I have captured lots of their arties in CivIII/PTW and C3C.

really? For instance in the game I am in right now the greeks is the best AI for the moment and they have bulit only one, they placed it in a pretty good position though

they are building a large amount of aircraft though whick is nice

	09-01-2004 23:40									#10
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quote: I bombarded that same -bleeping- Carrier for several turns. It just kept catching all my shells!!!!

Sounds like there has to be a special exemption to non-lethal bombard just for cities: If target is in a city, bombardment is lethal to aircraft and ships, regardless of the lethal bombardment status of the firing unit.

	10-01-2004 04:04									#11
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I think that Arty should have lethal bombard, just not as strong as an attack that knocks down the bars to one. After the bars are at one, you could continue to bombard, but the chance of lethal destruction would be 1/4 or something.

Ah, what am I saying, arty stacks are already too powerful to the human player as is..nevermind

	12-01-2004 20:48									#12
	Remove this text

if arty would have lethal bombardment the Ai will never even know what hit them...

	13-01-2004 02:07									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Fatwreck if arty would have lethal bombardment the Ai will never even know what hit them...

Bombers are now leathal and the AI seems to use them well. I was at war and looked up one turn and I had a city w/ zero improvements and zero defenders. I didn't know what hit me!!!!!

Steven

	14-01-2004 19:24									#14
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I brought this point up in November when C3C was first released. Check Debug game report #2.

I think it was also included in Alexman's bug fixes thread.

Thanks for bringing it up again.