03-01-2001 21:31									#1
	Need temporary replacements for my games Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I am probably leaving tomorrow and not coming back until the 25th of this month. So I will need temporary replacements for that time.

Dip 20 is in the Fall of 1878, and waiting on a draw proposal.
20th Century Dip is still in the builds turn.
1600 Dip is in Spring 1606 if I recall.

When I get back I will only be online on weekends until I move into a more permanent residence, but I should be able to continue the dip games.

Also I need a temporary replacement for me in domination dip until I find a more permenant residence.

Sorry for the inconvience.

	03-01-2001 23:03									#2
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Actually, Dip20 is entering Fall 1879. Before you leave, you should submit the moves you have already received for all three games to the replacement GM.

SnowFire? Would you like to GM us again? Thx.

	07-01-2001 21:23									#3
	Put an end to popups!

Gentlemen,

I would appreciate hearing some more opinon on this topic. As a player in all three games I cannot volunteer to assume temporary or permanent GM duties in any of theese games. I am already doing the maps in two of them (1600 and 20th Century), and have temporarily done the maps in Dip 20 in the past. So I'm doing my part to help out here.

All three of these games have suffered from multiple and lengthy delays from GM absence. I'm not trying to crucify Du_Chateau for his latest problems. We all have a life to live, and it intervenes some times. But GMing three Dip games is an enormous committment, and not one to be entered lightly. Perhaps if he were able to concentrate on one or two games he'd have time to do the others?

Frankly the games are losing interest for me, and I'm doing quite wll in two of them, and relishing a good fight (even though I'll eventually lose it) in the other. I hesitate to guess what these games are like for players facing elimination, though I'm geting the feeling from Dip 20 as India. These delays are simply prolonging an agaony that is uindeed painful. I'm willing to endure the pain, if it procedes at a regular pace, but it's unfair to ask players in these positions to remain loyal to a game like this after 2 month delays.

So if these games cannot be picked up by a GM that will see them through to completion, I propose ending them all by some reasonable form a draw, that rewards those leaders and strong positions in each game. How to determine this will be contentious naturally, but I'll throw out the following proposals in the absence of anyone stepping forward to assume GM duties.

1600 Diplomacy

Poland
Russia
Spain
England


20th Century Diplomacy

England
USA
Japan
Italy


Dip 20

Austraila
South Africa
Austria
Confederacy


Please note that I would PREFER to play on in all three games, but I really don't want to wait another month or more for Du_Chateau to return, and then attempt to pick things up again. In all likelihood, there will be a need to replace several players by then, and the game dynamic will have shifted yet again. This is entirely frustrating. But the worst part is trying to figure out how to budget one's time when and if these games become active again. I know that I'm been lured into 3 new games in the wake of these shutting down, and I suspect that others have as well. But if these games start up again, many of us will become overextended in our Diplomacy committments. And this is what leads to NMRs, delays, and abandonments.

So PLEASE someone out there take over as GM of these games. I would resign my position in one of them and take over, but I really feel that that is unfair to me as a player, and unfair to my allies and opponents alike. I've already done that in Dip 22, and It still nags at me that I had to. Thanks for reading this far.

	08-01-2001 10:38									#4
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I accept the draw proposal in Dip 20... please, let's end this now; it was fun to start with, but it's been going too long now.

	08-01-2001 01:28									#5
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20th Cent.( Japan )

I will support a draw proposal for this game if that is the will of those playing. I must admit that I've had a hard time staying up to date on it even though I'm in a fairly strong position at this point. I also agree that delaying the game for another month would result in the need for more replacements, and they're not always easy to find. This game started in April if I remember correctly, and that seems alittle long for holding the competitive fire needed.
I don't know how you want to score this Ruffy, but I think all those who played this game from the beginning should recieve afew extra points. As you mentioned , some players have stayed with this game for a long time knowing they had no chance to win it.
Oh well, whatever is decided I will except and abide by.

	08-01-2001 03:14									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Both Draw proposals for Dip 20th and Dip 20 are acceptable.

	08-01-2001 04:09									#7
	Put an end to popups!

LS1: I suppose I could GM one of these games, but let's see if RUFFHAUS's draw proposal goes through first.

	08-01-2001 06:19									#8
	Put an end to popups!

Snowfire if you take one, I believe the best one would be 20th, it's the newest and of the three the most unpredicable as far as predictability goes in these three games.

Thanks if you take one.

	08-01-2001 06:58									#9
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Maybe I'm creating too much chaos here with this talk of ending these games in draws. But in the absence of anyone who can realistically assume the duties of these games I don't know what else to do. As I said previously, I would prefer to play on in all of the games. In my mind a draw has to be forged of a unaminous decision. And if SnowFire is willing to take one of the games over, we may be on our way. Knowing how much time is involved in GMing a game I'm reluctant to ask anyone to assume these duties, but for the good of our community, won't someone help?

	08-01-2001 07:17									#10
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I'm stalemated in 20 with CSA, I will try to find someone to take CSA and I will assume the GM and mapmaking duties of Dip 20. If we can get these games on a weekly basis they will end soon.

	08-01-2001 08:19									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

The Brazilian Prime Minister pulls his head up from the hole in the sand, "What? The pain will stop? Hurrah! We support the 20th Century draw proposal!"

	08-01-2001 08:45									#12
	Got spare money?

After some consideration I have decided to take up GMing Dip 1600. Please send/resend all Fall 1605 moves to me.

	08-01-2001 09:03									#13
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Okay, thank you SnowFire. Now we have 1600 and Dip 20 covered. I guess we wait on 20th Century or discuss a draw. I'll withdraw my 4 way draw proposal, and settle for a draw with the United States. Otherwise I guess we wait out Du_Chateau or a replacement GM.