08-01-2004 04:53									#1
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I was wondering after reading the common bug/exploit list

what do you foiks try to dodge doing in order to play a clean game ?


Obvious answers are multi drops and perhaps ICS in my case ( spoils a bit the way the game was planned to be played , perhaps aside despot leaders )

	08-01-2004 08:33									#2
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Before I found Aployton, all my later games were clean, playing Iron man. (My earlier games involved replaying a turn or two).

I didn't know about these bugs until I came here.

	08-01-2004 09:14									#3
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In the cleanest games I dodge everything to do with crawlers and only use hotkeys as many of the right-click menu actions work in different ways to the hotkeys. (ie multiple drop bug, farming on MtPlanet summit, etc)

	08-01-2004 15:11									#4
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"multiple drop bug"?

	08-01-2004 15:36									#5
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk "multiple drop bug"?

Units equipped with drop pods can make an unlimited number of drops in one turn. Right-click on the destination and select the "Airdrop Here" (or something similar) option. Repeat as often as desired.

	08-01-2004 15:37									#6
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"multiple drop bug"?

I think is something like this (not 100% sure):

You might do more then one parachute (sp?) drop per turn and unit if you use rightclick instead of hotkeys...

	08-01-2004 19:18									#7
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Yep. That's why you should only use the hot keys.
Then there's also upgrading and cashing crawlers on the same turn.
Moving and upgrading units.
Making formers "store" t-forming.
Automating planes to attack units you didin't know were there....
Stockpile energy in buld queue.

There's hundreds of them.

-Jam

	08-01-2004 20:02									#8
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I've never even bothered building drop units until I have the SP that allows unlimited range (because I considered the range to be to small to be of much use in my strategies), so I've never actually had the need to skip units across Planet like stones across a pond.

	09-01-2004 03:54									#9
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There are some difficult points:
Upgrading a unit with Ctrl-U KEEPS the high morale bonus without needing the high morale ability. I expect upgrading a unit to one with high morale will ignore the high high morale bonus.
When using the workshop upgrade the high morale ability works as one would expect.

Some players consider using the workshop upgrade cheating because it allows moving and upgrading in the same turn, I think it's especially considered cheating when you upgrade then attack in the same turn.

In either case I abuse both means of upgrading to get the best effect, for example while upgrading with the workshop then attacking is great and all, you lose the high morale bonus meaning that elite attacker turns into a commando, hmmm. Also the Workshop upgrade is often less effecient because you upgrade lots of units that may not need to be upgraded for many turns, in this way the two upgrade methods are largely balanced, even if by accident.

So my personal preference is "abuse workshop quirks to the max", with the following exceptions:
No designing and upgrading crawlers for the purpose of cashing into SP's. Cashing in crawlers upgraded for the purpose of emergency defense is borderline.
No reverse engineering the probe team to get the rover chassis.

As for the stockpile energy and stored tforming, I don't abuse nor go out of my way to avoid them.

	09-01-2004 04:08									#10
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Stored terraforming isn't a cheat or exploit unless you use it to complete terraforming under hostile conditions that was started and saved up in a safe area.

	09-01-2004 07:17									#11
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I agree with Blake and CT, and I'll add a comment...

If you have to go out of your way to avoid a "cheat", how much of a cheat can it be?

	09-01-2004 07:52									#12
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Not quite sure what is "stored" terraforming. Can anyone go in depth a bit ?

also i was wondering , as of now i play mostly at talent level but i win with enough advantage to probably tackle librarian now, however im wondering about a couple things.

Some people here say transcend is fairly "ownable", do they use lots of these "cheats" or is it ownable providing you play well with a conventionnal matter ( meaning you wont try stuff too exotic that ends up not being tought by coders and is a flaw of the AI )


Up to now the only cheat like strategy i stumbled upon without noticing i was exploiting the game is the stockpile in the queue, as i used to put it at the end of my queues prior to knowing it was auto stockpile once queue is done./

	09-01-2004 08:22									#13
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>[QUOTE] Originally posted by SativaX
Not quite sure what is "stored" terraforming. Can anyone go in depth a bit ?

>also i was wondering , as of now i play mostly at talent level but i win with enough advantage to probably tackle librarian now, however im wondering about a couple things.

>Some people here say transcend is fairly "ownable", do they use lots of these "cheats" or is it ownable providing you play well with a conventionnal matter ( meaning you wont try stuff too exotic that ends up not being tought by coders and is a flaw of the AI )

I've just finished transcend with Morgan; the last of the original 7 factions for me to do it with. I did not use supply crawlers to any real extent, nor did I cheat.
In all cases, victory was achieved via transcendence, although in some cases (Believers, Hive and I think Peacekeepers) I first conquered the planet except for one base; doing this means that you can save and then achieve each victory as it comes up. This of course is a little dull, but it is also the most satisfying way of victory.
Some factions were easier for me than others. The Morgans in particular I found very hard and I achieved transcendence basically by having enough cash reserves to buy it one go, after the Spartans had built VOP. It was also unsatisfying because the only way that I was able to achieve victory was by having a large continent to myself. If I shared a continent, I was screwed. I am a very poor Morgan player.
The Hive was pretty easy as were the Believers and University.


One 'trick' that proved invaluable was to plant forests everywhere. I owe that to this forum. That worked really well with the Hive who already have good production.

Better players than me defintely find transcend difficulty easy regardless of faction, but for me only the Hive was really easy- an annoying thing because I really really hate the Hive.

	09-01-2004 08:36									#14
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The only strategy you need to completely own transcend is plant forest everywhere and build tree farms and other infrastructure. Pop-booming, crawlers and every cheat/abuse is simply overkill.

For example as Gaians I easily reached the top of the power chart running my empire like a pagan conservation park, forest everywhere, leaving patches of fungus, not touching the freshwater sea at all, not raising land etc. I didn't build the VW or Hologram theatres and I didn't build military other than one [military] unit of each chassis because they were peaceloving technophobes.

The AI really sucks

Storing terraforming is moving a former after it's devoted some turns to a terraforming action, the terraforming is carried around with the former rather than staying in the tile and can be spent on anything - you can spend 5 turns on a borehole, then immediately build a sensor. I think you may have to "use" the stored terraforming in the same turn as you cancel the formers previous task, but as I said I don't pay much attention to it.

PS: Morgan is EXTREMELY strong. Build lots of bases, pack them in close and buy lots of infrastructure. Run Fundie+Wealth in wartime. Thats all you really need to know to kickass with Morgan.

	09-01-2004 08:50									#15
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Is theresome list of exploits?

	09-01-2004 10:27									#16
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Store tforming is pure nonsense then haha. Both logically and in terms of fair play. I shall not use that one for sure.

Well thanks for the insight , i guess ill try my hand at librarian now.


I used crawlers for a single thing up to now and it was to boost SP , but i did it in a major way , every time a new SP was available ALL my bases threw at least one if not two crawlers.

I never used them to work squares as with university up to now i can manage to keep my bases productive enough with the workers themselves at least long enough to get sky labs.

I am interested in knowing a bit more about "upgrading" crawlers however. Would addind some armor to them speed up my SP even more ?

	09-01-2004 22:40									#17
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Crawlers can be upgraded fairly cheaply, so it would cost like 100ec to get 50 extra minerals worth on your crawler which can be cashed into the SP. However if you had just pumped this money into the SP you would only get say 25 minerals.
I hardly ever have the money to bother with this but still im pretty sure thats how it is.
Oh and its considered cheating in MP games so keep it to SP at most

Last edited by Lazerus on 09-01-2004 at 22:47

	09-01-2004 22:51									#18
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Normal crawlers can be cashed for their full mineral value (3 mineral rows) but if you upgrade them first you can effectively buy extra minerals at less than the 4 energy/mineral you would have to pay to rush the secret project directly. For example:

At +1 industry rating, a crawler is worth 27 minerals.

Upgrading that crawler to a 0-2-1 costs 60 energy, and increases its value to 45 minerals. You paid 60 energy for 18 minerals, instead of the 72 it would normally cost

Upgrading the 0-1-1 to a 0-2t-1 costs 90 energy, and increases its value to 72 minerals. You paid 90 energy for 45 minerals, half the normal cost. After fusion, this gets really sick.

	09-01-2004 23:08									#19
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quote: Originally posted by SativaX I never used them to work squares as with university up to now i can manage to keep my bases productive enough with the workers themselves at least long enough to get sky labs.

BUt crawlers can make your bases even more productive. Don't waste a citizen working a mine for instance-- instead crawl the minerals and make a specialist-- more drone control and more research-

You can win on any level without crawlers BUT I think everyone agrees that good use of crawlers can really strnegthen your play

	10-01-2004 02:50									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Lazerus Oh and its considered cheating in MP games so keep it to SP at most

Not in the standard 'Poly rules or in any of the 8 or so PBEMs I'm in.

	10-01-2004 02:58									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Lazerus Oh and its considered cheating in MP games so keep it to SP at most

I have probably 20 MP games under my belt and I have never seen this listed as a cheat-- IN fact, seeing Projects built in a single turn is the norm and not the exception

	10-01-2004 03:07									#22
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Hmmm, like I said earlier somewhere else, to each their own.

So if you like to use this method, that's fine with me. I'm just curious as of to your thoughts.

Wouldn't using crawlers to help speed up special projects be considered twinkish? From roleplaying persecptive anyway.

I can't imagine that's what designers had in mind. But again what do I know?

	10-01-2004 03:09									#23
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well in a few games ive been in its banned along with the likes of the stockpile bug, and thats usually refered to as cheating, just preferences then.