08-01-2004 16:31									#1
	Progenitors Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

It would be nice to rebalance the Caretakers/Usurpers in such a way that they could be played by a human without being too overpowered. Any ideas?

	09-01-2004 02:24									#2
	Remove this text

Hmm. You could probably start by giving them less starting technology, no Battle Ogre units, and more serious social engineering negatives. I'd take a good hard look at their combat bonuses, too.

	09-01-2004 20:42									#3
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I don't see the progenitors as being all that overpowered overall ( just VERY powerful at the start) but would make these comments

1. The extra tech cuts both ways-- its a good advantage if they momentum someone but it makes research darn slow for a while-- The human research factions can kick their butt.

2.The battle ogre is overpowered early-- If you land next to a progenotor you will probably have difficulties. Put that ogre in human hands and ouch

3. I think the extra colony pod is their biggest advantage-- I would take that away

Overall I find them a huge problem in the early game but later on, trade can excede what they get from facilities plus nerve gas is oh so effective in eliminating them without any consequences. Its situational . . . If they can take our a faction or steal good tech they can become a monster force, but if they are left alone, it will likely take them a long time to get to crawlers --Some of the free techs they get are ok for war but add nothing to industrial capacity

Last edited by Flubber on 09-01-2004 at 21:05

	10-01-2004 10:22									#4
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Here's the problem:

There is an ability called "Alien Faction" that does the following:
- Gives the techs Progenitor Psych and Field Modulation
- Disables commerce and enables the Progenitor Energy Grid
- Gives an extra colony pod and Mk1 Ogre
- Makes humans not like them
- Disables pacting
- Late start (Don't know about MP)
- Changes the artwork of units

But an Ogre and the Usurper's +25% on attack put together is not fun for the humans

The free Recycling Tanks are also a problem.

I think their start needs a slight nerfing.

Their SE bonuses/negatives could use a little tweaking, too.