10-01-2004 11:25									#31
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So what causes leakage in the first place? Do small amounts of oxygen get accelerated past escape velocity somehow? Or is there some other process that my physics-impaired ass doesn't know about? I'm intrigued...

	10-01-2004 11:30									#32
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Not all molecules are at rms velocity

They follow a Boltzmann distribution.

exp (-E/kT)

so there are always some greater than escape velocity.

How many that is depends on temperature, mass of molecule and what escape velocity

rms velocity of H2 at stp is ~1700 m/s IIRC (it has to be 4X that of O2), which is much less than earth's escape velocity which is into the tens of km/s

But there's no H2 in earth's atmosphere (or hardly any)

	10-01-2004 11:31									#33
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Sorry. escape velocity on moon is actually ~2.5 km/s
Earth's is the one at 11 km/s
Point still stands.

	10-01-2004 11:37									#34
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Situation is even more complicated than that, because the mean free path of molecules in an atmosphere as dense as the earth's is very small, so not all molecules at escape velocity will make it all the way out.

Those already in outer reaches of atmosphere will have best chance.

	10-01-2004 11:38									#35
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Interesting. Thanks.

	10-01-2004 12:42									#36
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quote: Originally posted by TCO dEAN IS ALREADY THERE.

	10-01-2004 15:51									#37
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Is my quality of life on Mars significantly better than I would have on Earth? I don't want one of those damn frontier communities with weirdly asymmetrical economies and no doctors. Pioneers die young. Let Mars settle down into civilised society for a few hundred years and then I'd think about it.

I'm patient after all.

	10-01-2004 16:03									#38
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One interesting point about establishing a breathable atmosphere on the Moon or on Mars that I had not considered until very recently is that, thanks to the lower gravities, it would have to be much thicker than Earth's to achieve the same pressure.

	10-01-2004 16:06									#39
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"Thicker"?

I'm assuming you mean heightwise.

That is true.

	10-01-2004 16:11									#40
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Yes, heightwise.

I don't like the idea of terraforming an atmosphere. It would take a lot of work, and would remove many of the advantages of colonizing the Moon in the first place.

	10-01-2004 16:16									#41
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Terraforming is in distant future, AFAIK

And it migh remove some advantages, but provide a hell of a lot too.

Think about how much cheaper and safer it is to work under 100 kPa than it is to work under 0

	10-01-2004 16:19									#42
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I woke up. too much drinking. caps lock came off too.

	10-01-2004 16:19									#43
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Think the of view from Lunar Observatories once that extra-thick atmosphere is in place.

	10-01-2004 16:20									#44
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Easier to keep satellites in orbit, no?

Especially for large mirrors. Gravity is chief problem with current large mirrors.

	10-01-2004 16:20									#45
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quote: Originally posted by TCO I woke up. too much drinking. caps lock came off too.

How much you have, sailor?

Feel okay or sick?

	10-01-2004 16:23									#46
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Once the infrastructure is in place, it'll be easier to maintain the really large observatories on the surface, just as it is now -- though, certainly, putting observatories in lunar orbit is an option.

Then there's the whole "ecology" thing.

	10-01-2004 16:25									#47
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You mean preserving a bunch of dead rock?

**** it.

	10-01-2004 16:25									#48
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse How much you have, sailor? Feel okay or sick?

I'm fine. about 4-5. More than good for me. But no hang over.

	10-01-2004 16:26									#49
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse You mean preserving a bunch of dead rock? **** it.

You are killing the geodiversity...

	10-01-2004 16:27									#50
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You must know by now that I'm a pretty bad environmentalist too.

	10-01-2004 16:27									#51
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Exactly.

Right now, the moon dosen't have one, and we can move as much heavy industry and "risky" science there as we please without upsetting anything.

Once we have a "breathable" atmosphere there, however...

	10-01-2004 16:28									#52
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The moon's so big we couldn't possibly **** it all up...

	10-01-2004 16:32									#53
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I want to be able to lie on a beach chair one day, sipping a Luna Libre, staring out at the beautiful view of the earth rising over the lake occupying Copernicus crater...

	10-01-2004 16:34									#54
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Another advantage is that none of it has any prior claims, so it's very hard to step on any toes -- no residential zoning, evironmental impact statements, nature reserves, etc.

How big did you want that superconducting supercollider (with dedicated power plant, of course)?

	10-01-2004 16:34									#55
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I think once around the lunar equator should be sufficient...

	10-01-2004 16:35									#56
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Hmmm...beachchair...supercollider...beachchair...supercollider...

	10-01-2004 16:37									#57
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Think about the billion or so extra people. Now think about their GDP. Now think about taxing that GDP and turning it over to pure science...

	10-01-2004 16:37									#58
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We could dome over one of the larger craters, give it a good gas mix and a lake, and put your beachchair there...

	10-01-2004 16:38									#59
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Works for me!

	10-01-2004 16:39									#60
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grant proposal needs work...