10-01-2004 05:07									#1
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Ive heard great things about it, how back in the day it was the game, and practicaly all RPGs nowadays claim to be based on it, but Ive never played it before

So how is it played anyway? Can it be a one player game? Or do you need other people to play too? Does it have a board, or is it 'pen&paper' (and what exactly does pen&paper mean?)? Is it worth buying?

there, I've confessed my sins. Please have mercy on my soul

also what does the 'A' in AD&D stand for?

	10-01-2004 05:20									#2
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I haven't played since about 1987, and the rules have changed quite a bit since then. ...but I'll try to answer some of your questions.

1. I't's pen and paper. Meaning you create your world and characters on paper and in your mind, based on the the many, many rules and the mind of "the dungeon master" who is the guy that plays"god", so to speak. Dice are used for to determine the outcome of battles and other events.

2. The A stands for advanced :Advanced dungeons and dragons, There used to be a "simplified version of it" don't know if there still is. Though simplified isn't a good word, it just had slightly different rules, and not as many books.

3. You can't play single player, and usually you would want at least 3 players. 1 "dungeon master", an 2 "adventurers"

4. By it if you are interested, but only if you can spend the time and have others that would be interested. I personally, prefer the PC versions these days, as I've "grown out" of the original.

One good thing about D&D is that it gets kids to read, which is a major benefit. If they start to play they want to learn more and more about it, which can make some kids who aren't very interested in reading do so. As for me, it led me to a strong interest in mythology in my younger days, so I began to read a lot of history and mythology books that weren't D&D related.

	10-01-2004 05:23									#3
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Oh and if you do intend to buy it, don't expect to be able to buy 1 package and have the entire game. The game spans dozens of books, though not all are needed to play.

	10-01-2004 05:30									#4
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quote: One good thing about D&D is that it gets kids to read, which is a major benefit.

thats actually why I was asking about it. I prefer a good book to any computer or video game but I hate how you can only 'watch' what happens in a book. (I had an idea that there was reading involved since Ive seen tons of books for it, and guessed you wouldnt need that many instruction manuals )

quote: You can't play single player, and usually you would want at least 3 players. 1 "dungeon master", an 2 "adventurers"

well there goes that idea. People up here dont even like playing a good rpg on computers or consoles they say its too dumb (guess what I think of them)

quote: I personally, prefer the PC versions these days

what are the PC versions? or do you mean all of the games that are "based" on it?

	10-01-2004 06:11									#5
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I started playing around 1979 with the blue Basic D+D book but i haven't played much over the last few years.

Essentially you need a group of people - we had around 15 but people would drift in and out and a lot of spare time was needed. The best bit i found was not the actual combat but the roleplaying of your character. For this you want interesting people (does that sound harsh ?) The run around killing things and getting powerful wanes after a while.

You can do it all with a bit of imagination and some paper to keep stats on but i think most people ended up using miniature figures, floorplans, maps etc

There use to be Basic D+D, Expert D+D and Advance but i don't know if that;s still the case. If you want to play then you'll probably want the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide and the Monster Manual as a starting point (well it was circa 1985).

I too prefer the PC version now mainly because i don't have the time to play a proper campaign, the save function makes it easy to pick up where you let off and at the local D+D club everyone was half my age !! The only downside to PC version is that the ability to actually role play is very limited.

	10-01-2004 06:31									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Space05us what are the PC versions? or do you mean all of the games that are "based" on it?

Meaning, Baldur's gate, Icewind Dale and others

	10-01-2004 06:46									#7
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Get neverwinter nights, look up some people who're into roleplaying and real D&D fans, and play multiplayer. ALFA is one group to consider.


Or, there are also communities of players that play Pen and Paper style through IRC chats, or even email. I don't know of any personally, though.

	10-01-2004 06:57									#8
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quote: multiplayer

yeah I could play the slug!!!

I cant MP anything over the net. I once tried BF'42 on the net and I kept getting killed by my own teamates. Ive also tried to play Warcraft and they asked me kindly to leave cause I was "****ing everything up" but they asked kindly. I also tried America's Army, they kept booting me out.

On the other hand I can play MUDs and Ultima Online (not on the official shards though, too laggy) But they get boring really quickly, the muds are either too small or crappily cut and pasted together and all of the UO shards Ive found are either too laggy or have really crappy features that ruin the gameplay.

	10-01-2004 07:01									#9
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That still leaves the IRC / email D&D.

	10-01-2004 07:41									#10
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Hmm... I have been trying to get into a multiplayer RPG as well (either online or IRL) but havn't been able to for exactly the reasons Space05us described.

	10-01-2004 07:56									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld Get neverwinter nights

I don't have it yet, but from what I know of it it's probably the closest to pen and paper DnD, because of the fact that modules can be made for it. Appareently there are a lot of decent single player modules as well.

	10-01-2004 08:54									#12
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Personally I hate never winter nights but im a huge fan of baulders gate. im only 15 and started playing D&D a couple of years ago. If you do play i highly reccomend geting a good dungon master if you do the game can see much more livley and you will get a lot more instreted in it. my problems with D&D though are i havent had a good dm for a long time my friends always talk about starting a really cool campagne that we will actually do more then make charachters for then we will play twice and that will be the end of it. The dm must also love being dm other wise he will likely end the campagne before eveyone elso wants to. But for the most part when i play its usualy just an excuse to get togther with my friends and make sick jokes for a couple of hours.

	10-01-2004 18:58									#13
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quote: Get neverwinter nights

YES! Then you can play the Dungeon of Apolyton ! Release sometime next week !

[/blatant advert]

-Jam

	10-01-2004 19:17									#14
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quote: Originally posted by centrifuge I don't have it yet, but from what I know of it it's probably the closest to pen and paper DnD, because of the fact that modules can be made for it.

That, and someone can also play as the DM and direct the story by taking control over NPCs, creating events, ect..


I haven't actually played multiplayer, though, so I can't say how well it works...

	10-01-2004 23:55									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Space05us and practicaly all RPGs nowadays claim to be based on it

That's not true, not for the pencil-n-paper type anyway.

	11-01-2004 00:16									#16
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Yes, it's sad to see so many pen and paper games were devised to be better than D&D and see the CRPGs use those crappy rules. Those which don't (Fallout, Morrowind, Arcanum...) are usually way better than the D&D games.

	11-01-2004 01:35									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Space05us also what does the 'A' in AD&D stand for?

Advanced.

Pen and paper was more imaginative since magic could be more creative and certain actions are hard to quantify with a program. (i.e, a player attempted a close portal spell on a creatures heart valve hoping to induce a heart attack) A good game master made for a great game.

On the other side, computers are great record keepers. Battling 150 orcs is a lot easier with computers keeping track.

But no matter how much easier it made it, it never had quite the same flavor.

	11-01-2004 04:30									#18
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Close portal was ALWAYS cast on the party's idiot - on his anus of course

-Jam

	11-01-2004 05:35									#19
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quote: (i.e, a player attempted a close portal spell on a creatures heart valve hoping to induce a heart attack)

I wanna play!

	11-01-2004 05:53									#20
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quote: (i.e, a player attempted a close portal spell on a creatures heart valve hoping to induce a heart attack)

That's more abuse than imagination imho. As a DM, I'd never let that one pass (unless maybe if you could see the valve). Uses of spells like silence to make your spellcaster more stealthy than the party thief are, in fact, possible in pen and paper, and make me cry when I play CRPGs where such things are hard to come by (except maybe in nethack where you can decode to polymorph into a leprechaun for the sole purpose of not paying a sucubus after she seduces you and other weird things).

	11-01-2004 07:45									#21
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I really like the good old pen and paper role-playing. It's much better than any computer game will be, maybe not forever but for a long time, even with multiplayer. The D&D system itself -even if it was revolutionary for its time - quickly turned out to be an inferior system. Here in Sweden there where a few games that was (and is) imho much better and more 'realistic'.

	11-01-2004 09:34									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin Here in Sweden there where a few games that was (and is) imho much better and more 'realistic'.

As LDiCesare said, most systems that came out after AD&D are better designed. Even Warhammer Fantasy is.

	11-01-2004 12:04									#23
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I played it once and I didnt like it. I kept trying to do silly stuff and the guy next to me kept telling me i couldnt do anything.

	11-01-2004 13:21									#24
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I did force the player to touch the chest to cast that spell. he was almost killed on the attack since he had no defenses.

	11-01-2004 14:26									#25
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out of curiosity, since I've never played any pen and paper RPGs outside of Ad&D, what games have improved it? ...and in what ways are they better?

	11-01-2004 17:42									#26
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I don't really know that much about AD&D appart from computer games. Also, later games are of cource different from each other in many ways. However, one has to think about the back story to D&D. It was designed for games that was not much more than characters walking around in dungeons, killing stuff. For example the swedish clone of D&D - called Drakar och Demoner or DoD for short - removed a lot of the most stupid rules from D&D. You don't get more hitpoints just because you get better, hitpoints are determined by your characters constitution, not by her or his level. Also, there are no levels. The RPC gains experience in a number of different skills depending on how much they use or train them. Other changes in the core rules is the removal of such silly things as THAC0. I could go on, there's a lot of other changes. I just took a few from a game that I know very well. AD&D is a system that is much more suited for computer games than for pen and paper-games. AD&D is such a stiff and unflexible system. Well, at least if you have a DM that follows the rules. Everyone witch has played games like that for a while knows that a good game-session doesn't come from a DM that's following the rules to the letter. It's supposed to be a story with characters, not a game of probability.

	11-01-2004 19:49									#27
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quote: what games have improved it? ...and in what ways are they better?

What games? All. I mean it. All other RPGs are better than D&D because noone would have dared publish a game that couldn't compare to the standard.
Other games were better in many ways.
Mostly, almost all of them provided skills. This means in D&D if you were not a thief, you could not climb a wall. In all other games, you can. Same for picking locks, etc. A mage could try to learn using a sword and become remotely good at it. Personalization of characters was much better done (for instance Rolemaster and MERP allowed beckground options to make characters unique).
Social skills made charisma actually useful (persuasion, trading skills, ...).
The magic system also wanted lots of improvement: Mana or power points have been introduced, spells grouped in lists (Rolemaster) or been even more specific. Systems like Runequest or Stormbringer provided way more detailed and interesting magic systems.
Combat was increased with games like Rolemaster (very funny and deadly critical hits), or Runequest (localized wounds, no increase of hit points per level, critical hits too).
Other games improved by the settings and atmosphere (Call of Cthulluh, MERP, Paranoia...).

	11-01-2004 22:13									#28
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Also, as Krop mentioned, most other systems did away with classes, levels, hit points, armour class, the silly magic rules, the overabundance of magical items, and alignment (what a silly concept).

You gain experience by playing your character, not killing things (Rolemaster being a noted exception). If you play your character well, or do things cleverly, you gain bonuses. Experience points can be used to increase your skills in various things, and most systems allow for increases in attributes as well.

A lot of systems have interesting innovations. In Top Secret, you could lose attributes permanently by sustaining injuries, making combats very very bad. In Runequest, you cast battlemagic spells with Power - but you also resist magic with Power, creating an interesting dilemma.

	12-01-2004 07:35									#29
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centrifuge's advice is good

quote: Oh and if you do intend to buy it, don't expect to be able to buy 1 package and have the entire game. The game spans dozens of books, though not all are needed to play.

But all you really need to do is to have some sort of character generation program (free on the net) and you can get by even if you're the DM that's what I do. I don't own a single 3rd Edition book- I'm too cheap.

I had a few 2nd Edition books I picked up for 1/2 price and a first edition and a 1/2 price warhammer guide book and read through books and adventures at stores and ripped stories off the internet (for free) and free monsters on the net, and on the D&D sites... and my dungeons and dragons group admits that MY DMed adventures are more complete and intriguing and interesting than theirs (and they buy the books and use the generated adventures (sometimes))

I just make everything up.
D&D is a bounty of the mind

-
I've even played myself alone in D&D,... it is possible
It's very easy to play single player- I'll give you a tutorial if you want one
-
If you ever find a group- about 6 people is the right number... if you get over 7, then you have balance problems as they might be too general and able to hack down any problem you throw at them (unless you separate them... and if you do that too often, they might lose interest ) [people don't like to be 'out of the game']

I first bought a 1st Edition AD&D booklet in 1990/1 and have been playing with others (2nd Edition) in 1999... then (3rd Edition) 2001-present and in fact, next weekened, we're planning on getting together and finishing the story arc I've been working on for 9 DM sessions

--
and if all else fails, you can try internet D&D, they had an OffTopic game running a few months back

--

quote: out of curiosity, since I've never played any pen and paper RPGs outside of Ad&D, what games have improved it? ...and in what ways are they better?

In my D&D group, the game MAGE has been really popular It doesn't allow the character to pick classes- basically you level up skills through usage and 'create your own character'... i find it sort of interesting and think that it can be used to good effect

But basically I still prefer D&D... because it's too easy to die in mage because of the damages and the guns and the wounds issues...

and because of the realtive benefits of both systems, my D&D group has recently been trying to hybrid the two. We've gotten quite far and managed to create the basic character generation system and all the basics

	12-01-2004 12:42									#30
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quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud D&D is a bounty of the mind - I've even played myself alone in D&D,... it is possible

Mental masturbation.