28-01-2004 18:39									#31
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Btw, Tassadar, would it theoretically be allowed that PEACE remained in existence as a seperate faction, but that all cyborgs were authorized in the PEACE forum, and vice versa, in effect creating one faction?

	28-01-2004 19:37									#32
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Theoretically possible as in allowed by the vbb forums, yes.
People would have to join both teams though, and have the forum mod of each authorise them.

To have both forums linked to the same team would most likely require the services of a real mod or even an admin to set up.

	28-01-2004 23:46									#33
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We will both lose to much time and resources if we destroy PEACE - we should instead unificate

	29-01-2004 00:22									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Btw, Tassadar, would it theoretically be allowed that PEACE remained in existence as a seperate faction, but that all cyborgs were authorized in the PEACE forum, and vice versa, in effect creating one faction?

Indeed it would

	29-01-2004 00:31									#35
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That's great! If only I knew this earlier! Then, if PEACE agrees to unify with us, it is not necessary at all for us to conquer their bases and for them to transfer unit control. The Pirate faction can just remain in existence and we can join each other's forum.

	29-01-2004 00:39									#36
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If they agree than

	29-01-2004 00:46									#37
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If. I doubt they will, but we can hope. Hoping they don't sabotage us either, like join us just to wreck it

	29-01-2004 01:04									#38
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Can I send this?:

Greetings most honoured PEACE Captains,

I've just heard some great news. I asked TassaGod whether, if you agreed to unify with us, it would be allowed for PEACE to remain in existence as a seperate faction, but that all cyborgs were authorized in the PEACE forum, and all Pirates authorized into the CyCon forum, in effect creating one faction.

Previously I suggested for all PEACE members to join the Consciousness after we had captured all your bases. But now it appears that is not necessary at all. If you are interested at least, we can end this war right now, sign a permapact, and authorize everyone in each other's forum, creating effectively one faction where we commonly decide on the course and orders of both in-game factions. In this scenario it would probably also be best to return a few bases to the PEACE side of the PEACE/CyCon Union, as PEACE can make much better use of all those sea bases.

How does such a unification sound to you? IMHO it would be the best way to forget our past differences and get along well with each other again.

Friendly greetings,

Maniac

---

quote: If. I doubt they will, but we can hope. Hoping they don't sabotage us either, like join us just to wreck it

If they agree to effectively unify, but then tell all our plans to the competition for example, I would propose to end this ACDG, as all rules of fairplay would have been broken.

Btw, even if only one PEACE member is interested in joining us after their faction is destroyed, we should delete or edit a whole bunch of posts where we express our negative opinion about PEACE, or where we are planning our lies against them (eg the "DBTS-absent" claim). We'd better start making a list of threads to clean.

Last edited by Maniac on 29-01-2004 at 01:10

	29-01-2004 02:05									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Btw, even if only one PEACE member is interested in joining us after their faction is destroyed, we should delete or edit a whole bunch of posts where we express our negative opinion about PEACE, or where we are planning our lies against them (eg the "DBTS-absent" claim). We'd better start making a list of threads to clean.

more brainwashing
And I thought Tass was already enough!!!

	29-01-2004 14:21									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac If they agree to effectively unify, but then tell all our plans to the competition for example, I would propose to end this ACDG, as all rules of fairplay would have been broken.

That is great danger, though i think we might recover from it even if some secrets would go out. I believe that such treachery would also not be seen very well by other factions. This possible unification is very generous and taking revange on CyCon by PEACE would mark them as not worthy of trust by any other faction on the Planet. They would be doomed, as maybe factions HIVE and Drones might ally with us to destroy such faction. What do you think about it?

But i do not see any reason to end the game

	29-01-2004 16:33									#41
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Their is a downside to letting the Pirates keep all their bases. They wont share any of our Secret Projects, wont contibute reserch (they could go all Econ though and just send that to us). On the other hand we would have less Buracracy Drones to deal with and many units would be saved from destruction.

If we do think then I would think the best course of action in the long run would be to transfer the Pirate bases to the Cycon at some point in the future when B-Drones are of less importance so that the combined Resarch and Energy production will be that much higher.

Ending the war though will be very good for us and could make the differnce between getting to MMI first so I am totaly for this proposal if they agree to it.

	29-01-2004 21:21									#42
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I've received two conflicting replies to my unification offer:

foolish_icarus:

quote: no

Makahlua:

quote: It's been posted to our diplomacy thread and we're rolling out the kegs and sharpening our knives for discussion.

I'll soon reply like this if there are no objections:

Hi foolish_icarus,

Can I ask why you say "no" in such a resolute way? Are you simply no longer interested in participating in this ACDG, or is it truly so that when faced with the choice between a) Join a PEACE-Consciousness Union, or b) Being forced to leave the ACDG, you'd much rather leave the ACDG than unifying with the Consciousness and continuing to participate??

Friendly greetings,

Maniac

---

Hi Makahlua,

quote: Makahlua wrote on 29-01-2004 03:09: It's been posted to our diplomacy thread and we're rolling out the kegs and sharpening our knives for discussion.

Thank you for doing so. I hope to hear from you soon, as this is a rather urgent matter as you understand. Sorry I didn't offer this proposal earlier, but I didn't know before it was allowed.

Btw, I received a PM from foolish_icarus where he simply replied "no" to my unification proposal. Is that an official opinion, or is he one of many voices?

Also could I please ask what PEACE members are still active these days? That way I know to who I should send further correspondence about this matter.

Thank you,

Maniac

---

	29-01-2004 23:03									#43
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From Makahlua:
***

quote: Btw, I received a PM from foolish_icarus where he simply replied "no" to my unification proposal. Is that an official opinion, or is he one of many voices?

He's just one voice among the captains; any -official- word would come from myself, Herc or FlameFlash.

quote: Also could I please ask what PEACE members are still active these days? That way I know to who I should send further correspondence about this matter.

Myself, Hercules, FlameFlash, foolish_icarus, johndmuller, H0bbes. and Gert have been the most active posters recently.

	30-01-2004 18:14									#44
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From foolish_icarus:

under no circumstances would I be willing to surrender to your faction while there remains anything left of PEACE. I will probably remain in the ACDG, but even then I might join another team instead of yours. And I will never consent to having our forum opened up prior to the end of the game.

---

Hmm, can I inform him of our intention not to destroy PEACE but let them keep one base which we keep under siege all the time, so that they cannot move to other factions? Something like below? And should I also send a copy to Makahlua?

---

Hi foolish_icarus, (cc to Makahlua, johndmuller and Gert, Hercules - others have told me they're not active anymore or haven't read previous PMs yet)

quote: under no circumstances would I be willing to surrender to your faction while there remains anything left of PEACE. I will probably remain in the ACDG, but even then I might join another team instead of yours.

I don't want to give you false hope, so I should tell you that if PEACE doesn't want to unify, and if the ACDG community decides that defeated faction members can join any other faction, that the Consciousness will most likely not completely destroy PEACE, but leave you one base we constantly keep under siege, so PEACE is theoreticallly still in the ACDG, thereby not allowing individual PEACE members to spread over other factions. We most certainly want to unify and cooperate with you, but if PEACE is not interested at all, we have to protect ourselves. I beg you not to consider this a threat. I just want to give you an honest view of your likely options.

Btw, regarding joining other factions, I hope you don't consider the Consciousness the ultimate evil monsters, and the Hive or Drones paradise. They've screwed you over, and are still screwing you over, just as much as the Consciousness has months back in MY 2141.

For example why do you think we have been able to conquer you so efficiently? Because the Hive was most eager to provide us with their pact infiltration information on your F4 and F7 screens. They even offered us credits (which we refused) back then to help our war. So the Hive is not at all interested in your wellfare - they actively helped in your destruction. And now, if my informants are correct, they are trying to exploit you one last time by hoping to get Adaptive Economics from you, knowing full well a trade won't do you any good anymore anyway. Also after Jamski's Revolution it has become clear to all that the Hive is led by an elite. If you joined them, you would always remain second-rate citizens.

The same counts for the Drones. Apparently they are trying, or will try, to trade AdapEcon and ProgPsych with you in exchange for SFF and DAP, claiming they want to help you against us. But if they were so interested in your wellfare, why didn't they give you High Energy Chemistry right at the start of the war? The truth is that just like the Hive they are only out to exploit you one last time, knowing full well you having SFF and DAP won't make any difference anymore at this stage of the war. And with the Drones too you would be second-rate citizens - buster does everything mostly on his own, only with limited input of jtsisyoda and Crazy-Achmed, so I observed by checking who posted last on the CGN-SMAXDG forum.

At least the Consciousness has an open and democratic decision making process and a lively roleplay. And unlike the Hive and Drones we are now offering you a fair proposal and an honest view of how things stand and what your options are.

Friendly greetings,

Maniac

---

Btw, should I send a message to the Hive and Drones asking whether they would accept former PEACE members who ask to join them after their faction is destroyed?

Last edited by Maniac on 31-01-2004 at 19:43

	30-01-2004 19:14									#45
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So far it looks as only one guy is opposed.
No reactions from others yet?

But for opening our forum and not vice-versa? Mmm... sounds dangerous.

And, under the rules, can't a faction decide to obliterate it's own last base when no other options exists anymore (under siege is no other option in my opinion)?

Then they're free as well to flock to other factions.

	31-01-2004 00:34									#46
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quote: No reactions from others yet?

Except for Makahlua's reply three posts higher, no further answers to my unification proposal.

quote: And, under the rules, can't a faction decide to obliterate it's own last base when no other options exists anymore (under siege is no other option in my opinion)?

AFAIK there isn't a rule about this (yet), but IMHO my Common Sensometer goes into the red if people would be allowed to join other factions after killing themselves voluntarily.

Anyway, I'll first ask the Hive & Drones if they would accept PEACE members, before I reply anything to PEACE.

	31-01-2004 19:44									#47
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Can I send this edited message to PEACE?:
***
Hi foolish_icarus, (cc to Makahlua, johndmuller and Gert, Hercules - others have told me they're not active anymore or haven't read previous PMs yet)

quote: under no circumstances would I be willing to surrender to your faction while there remains anything left of PEACE. I will probably remain in the ACDG, but even then I might join another team instead of yours.

I don't want to give you false hope, so I should tell you that if PEACE doesn't want to unify, and if the ACDG community decides that defeated faction members can join any other faction, that the Consciousness will most likely not completely destroy PEACE, but leave you one base we constantly keep under siege, so PEACE is theoreticallly still in the ACDG, thereby not allowing individual PEACE members to spread over other factions. We most certainly want to unify and cooperate with you, but if PEACE is not interested at all, we have to protect ourselves. I beg you not to consider this a threat. I just want to give you an honest view of your likely options.

Btw, regarding joining other factions, I hope you don't consider the Consciousness the ultimate evil monsters, and the Hive or Drones paradise. They've screwed you over, and are still screwing you over, just as much as the Consciousness has months back in MY 2141.

For example why do you think we have been able to conquer you so efficiently? Because the Hive was most eager to provide us with their pact infiltration information on your F4 and F7 screens. They even offered us credits (which we refused) back then to help our war. So the Hive is not at all interested in your wellfare - they actively helped in your destruction. And now, if my informants are correct, they are trying to exploit you one last time by hoping to get Adaptive Economics from you, knowing full well a trade won't do you any good anymore anyway. Also after Jamski's Revolution it has become clear to all that the Hive is led by an elite. If you joined them, you would always remain second-rate citizens.

The same counts for the Drones. Apparently they are trying, or will try, to trade AdapEcon and ProgPsych with you in exchange for SFF and DAP, claiming they want to help you against us. But if they were so interested in your wellfare, why didn't they give you High Energy Chemistry right at the start of the war? The truth is that just like the Hive they are only out to exploit you one last time, knowing full well you having SFF and DAP won't make any difference anymore at this stage of the war. And with the Drones too you would be second-rate citizens - buster does everything mostly on his own, only with limited input of jtsisyoda and Crazy-Achmed, so I observed by checking who posted last on the CGN-SMAXDG forum.

At least the Consciousness has an open and democratic decision making process and a lively roleplay. And unlike the Hive and Drones we are now offering you a fair proposal and an honest view of how things stand and what your options are.

Friendly greetings,

Maniac

	31-01-2004 20:27									#48
	Remove this text

The idea of intentanaly leaving them with one base like that seems kind of bitter to me and it likly wont achive what we want, they could simply alie with someone else.

Lets just see if they give an official response to what we have already sent. We shouldnt let up any of the preasure on the war front or fall all over ourselves to get them. We won the war fair and square and this is our offer take it or leave it, join us or wait several turns and join Hive/Drones.

Also if we do fuse I dont think its going to be very advantagus for them to keep thouse bases, their efficiency is horible. A better plan is to redistribute the crawlers back to the bases we have taken to help bring them back to productivity. PEACE could go FreeMarket as well and full research, we then send them NLM so they can switch and grab a usefull tec, afterwards they would go all Econ.

	31-01-2004 21:54									#49
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quote: The idea of intentanaly leaving them with one base like that seems kind of bitter to me and it likly wont achive what we want, they could simply alie with someone else.

Indeed. I'll scrap the first paragraph.

quote: Lets just see if they give an official response to what we have already sent.

I think that currently they have no intention at all to give us an official response. Probably - foolish_icarus comment that he would join another faction confirms this - they're just waiting on their destruction so they can move elsewhere. IMO our only shot to possibly convince PEACE to join us after all is telling them about Hive-Drone actions towards them, so they don't get the illusion the Hive and Drones want the best for them.

quote: Also if we do fuse I dont think its going to be very advantagus for them to keep thouse bases, their efficiency is horible.

That's mostly because we've captured their Headquarters, and that can be easily rebuilt elsewhere after the war's over. Also their aquatic ability will prove very useful if we'd decide in the future to raise the sea levels.

	01-02-2004 09:57									#50
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Can't really comment on this, most of the explanations happened before my time.
But if possible, I would like an unification with PEACE, but one from both sides, not them access to our forum and not vice versa. To many reasons I like it to mention, I'm afraid

	01-02-2004 17:28									#51
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I've excluded the bit where I proposed foolish_icarus to only let pirates apply in our forum.

Anyway, I guess I'd better wait with sending this message to PEACE until buster realizes his mistake. It would look rather odd if we told PEACE "buster will contact you about AdapEcon". It could lead to PEACE contacting the drones on their own initiative.

	01-02-2004 21:08									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac I've excluded the bit where I proposed foolish_icarus to only let pirates apply in our forum. Anyway, I guess I'd better wait with sending this message to PEACE until buster realizes his mistake. It would look rather odd if we told PEACE "buster will contact you about AdapEcon". It could lead to PEACE contacting the drones on their own initiative.

Something I can agree with is only one representative from both sides that has access to the other forum. A liason.

And I agree to wait with mentioning about Adap Econ. But a message without the stuff Impaler and I mentioned can be send, I think. It will keep them thinking that we really don't want to destroy them and perhaps it will stall their negotiations with other factions.

	02-02-2004 00:25									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Anyway, I guess I'd better wait with sending this message to PEACE until buster realizes his mistake. It would look rather odd if we told PEACE "buster will contact you about AdapEcon". It could lead to PEACE contacting the drones on their own initiative.

We have hit a gold mine here! Better to squeze every bit of information from Buster than risk exposing his mistake!

	02-02-2004 04:12									#54
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obstructor:

quote: We have hit a gold mine here! Better to squeze every bit of information from Buster than risk exposing his mistake!

Btw, do you have ideas what we could ask more?

Geo:

quote: And I agree to wait with mentioning about Adap Econ. But a message without the stuff Impaler and I mentioned can be send, I think.

Ok, how about the following message? Some more editing is done: taking into account Impaler's and your suggestions to remove parts, and also removing any reference towards AdapEcon. What do you think if it now? Ready to send?

	02-02-2004 04:46									#55
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Sounds good to me.
If enough of our CyCon's agree quickly enough, send it through.

	02-02-2004 15:07									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Btw, do you have ideas what we could ask more?

Ask if what would happen if they go to war with Unified CC-PUT (pretending you are interested in possible military help since CyCon would be distracted) - would Hive join the war too so that CyCon forces are reallocated to north?

	02-02-2004 16:02									#57
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I think that PEACE gets very good offer, but at the same time revealling what CyCon knows about Hive secret game for PEACE destruction will almost certainly cause the end of Brotherhood Pact CyCon-Hive, .........if anyone from PEACE tells anything to Hive about it.

	02-02-2004 18:07									#58
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quote: Originally posted by mart7x5 I think that PEACE gets very good offer, but at the same time revealling what CyCon knows about Hive secret game for PEACE destruction will almost certainly cause the end of Brotherhood Pact CyCon-Hive, .........if anyone from PEACE tells anything to Hive about it.

Indeed. That's why we need to get clarity about their attitude towards the Drones asap: permapacted or still a chance for us? The CPU unification will probably help to get to know the real Hive opinion I hope: they've got to choose soon.

	03-02-2004 06:45									#59
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IMHO We shouldn't send anything that we wouldn't want to get to the Hive. Let's not start a war with them yet, keep them sweet, and if they start it, we'll retaliate.

The Hive is out to win, as are the Drones. If the Hive feels we're more powerful than the Drones, they may side with us, assuring us victory. Either way, let us not antagonise them until we know war is the best option.

	03-02-2004 06:55									#60
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

You have a point of course. Hopefully we will know their attitude soon now I've sent them a PM.
I just hope they don't trade too much with PEACE in the meanwhile, while we're not sending this message.