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Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 11-01-2004 09:16 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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IGC: Civil Status Law is Sharia Tired of ads?

http://www.iraqpress.org/homepage.a...04-01-03\11.htm

quote:
Baghdad, Iraq Press, January 3, 2004 – The Interim Governing Council has decided that Iraqi civil status courts should resort to the Islamic Sharia or code in their rulings.



The secular regime of Saddam Hussein had passed laws that all matters related to marriage, divorce, birth, inheritance, etc. were required to be registered at government-run civil status courts.



The regime had also passed civil status legislation which in many areas did not conform to the strict teaching of Islam.



For example couples were under obligation to obtain medical examination in the light of the instructions from the court clerk.



They also personally appeared in front of a judge and two witnesses.



The IGC’s decision declares all civil status regulations issued by the ousted leader Saddam Hussein as null and void.



Iraqis have the right now to follow the applications of their disparate religious denominations and sects rather than the unified civil status regulations prevalent under Saddam Hussein.



The decision is apparently a blow to US efforts to set up a secular society and democracy in the country as an example for other Middle East states to follow.



In the meantime it is a signal of the considerable influence Islamic factions wield in the country particularly the Muslim Shiite groups.



Muslims, who make up 98 percent of the society, have the right now to follow centuries-old civil status traditions and codes which the former regime undermined because it saw as backward and uncivilized.



Under the former regime civil status courts were the only authority capable of issuing official marriage, divorce or birth certificates.



Many Iraqis still resorted to their clerics in such matters but papers issued by the clergy did not have the power of law.


****ing IGC.

Secularism in Iraq is over, folks.

Women will have to face harsh new inequalities when this pronouncement is enforced. For instance, Sunni women's shares of their inheritance will be half of their brothers' shares.

Hopefully, too much won't fall under the jurisdiction of civil status law...

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 11-01-2004 09:23
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Democracy... ain't it a *****?

Though I guess we could overrule them...

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 11-01-2004 09:25 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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What democracy? The IGC was appointed by us.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 11-01-2004 09:28
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Yeah, consisting of the many diverse groups in Iraq... their leaders were put upon the IGC. Like I said, democracy, ain't it a *****. If we didn't care about representing every group to make it 'democratic', we'd have denied the Islamic groups too many spots.

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 11-01-2004 09:38 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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The group being diverse doesn't make it democratic. And the main reason why we put crazy Islamists like Hakim (whose following is much, much smaller than the more moderate Shia Ayatollah, Sistani - thus it isn't democracy) in charge seems to be that they lead exile groups, since I don't see any other rational reason.

Odin is offline Odin
Prince
Biology Nerd at Minnesota State University Moorhead
Sep 2000
time: 23:33
  Old Post 11-01-2004 09:39
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Shiite fundy *******s!!! Looks like they are going from being oppressed by the Sunnis to oppressing the Sunnis. Expect a civil war within a year

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 11-01-2004 09:42
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quote:
The group being diverse doesn't make it democratic.


Well that's the freaking reason for it being diverse! DUH!

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 11-01-2004 09:44 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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quote:
Shiite fundy *******s!!! Looks like they are going from being oppressed by the Sunnis to oppressing the Sunnis. Expect a civil war within a year


Eh? This doesn't have anything to do with the Shia-Sunni conflict. In fact, Sunnis and Shia are evenly split in the IGC.

Last edited by Ramo on 11-01-2004 at 09:56

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 11-01-2004 09:56 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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quote:
Well that's the freaking reason for it being diverse! DUH!


The reason why it's diverse is that the exile political groups are to a large extent divided among ethnic and religious lines.

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 12-01-2004 07:01 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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Odd thing is, I can't find any other reference to this story on the net.

monkspider is offline monkspider
King
banned
Aug 2001
time: 23:33
  Old Post 12-01-2004 07:08
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Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Perhaps Persia could prove to be a ripe breeding ground for an anarcho-syndicalist revolution.

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 12-01-2004 07:13 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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Inflate your Upload Space

The revolution would likely more easily start in Sumeria though. It's more industrialized, thus more prone to syndicalism; in fact, the commies are a well-organized party there.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 12-01-2004 07:53
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Persia doesn't exist.

monkspider is offline monkspider
King
banned
Aug 2001
time: 23:33
  Old Post 12-01-2004 07:54
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Got spare money?

quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Persia doesn't exist.


You don't exist.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 12-01-2004 07:55
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Well, he's got you there, DD.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 12-01-2004 07:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Well, he's got you there, DD.
He's the one arguing with voices in his head.

Comrade Tassadar is offline Comrade Tassadar
Settler

Aug 2005
time: 05:33
  Old Post 12-01-2004 08:00 Visit Comrade Tassadar's homepage!
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How do you know we all aren't just voices in YOUR head?

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 12-01-2004 08:04
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Becuase that would mean I'd be crazy.

Seeker is offline Seeker
Emperor
London Ontario
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 12-01-2004 09:33 Visit Seeker's homepage!
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but you ARE crazy.

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 14-01-2004 13:54 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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Juan Cole (ME prof, prominent blogger on Iraq) writing about the Arabic paper az-Zaman which reported a mass-protest by women against this new law:

quote:
The Baghdad/London daily az-Zaman reports that there were widespread demonstrations on Tuesday by women against the order decreeing abolition of Iraq's uniform civil codes in favor of religious law, which they say "repeals women's rights" in Iraq. This story appears to have been completely missed so far by the Western news media, which is a great shame. Women are important, too, guys.

Women activists representing 80 women's organizations (including the female Interim Minister of Public Works!) gathered at Firdaws Square in downtown Baghdad to protest the IGC decree, issued three days ago. Minister of Public Works Nasreen Barwari complained to az-Zaman about the lack of "transparency" and of "democratic consultation" in the promulgation of the decree by the IGC. Protesters carried placards with phrases like "No to discrimination, No to differentiating women and men in our New Iraq." and "We reject Decree 137, which sanctifies religious communalism." Activist Zakiyah Khalifah complained that the law would weaken Iraqi families.

US observers, including US Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, have continually worried in public about Iraq becoming a theocracy, and have rejected that option. But the American-appointed Interim Governing Council has suddenly taken Iraq in a theocratic direction that has important implications for women's rights. As reported here earlier, the IGC took a decision recently to abolish Iraq's civil personal status law, which was uniform for all Iraqis under the Baath. In its place, the IGC called for religious law to govern personal status, to be administered by the clerics of each of Iraq's major religious communities for members of their religion. Thus, Shiites would be under Shiite law and Chaldeans under Catholic canon law for these purposes.

The IGC has ceded to the religious codes jurisdiction over marriage, engagement, suitability to marry, the marriage contract, proof of marriage, dowry, financial support, divorce, the 3-month "severance payments" owed to divorced wives in lieu of alimony, inheritance, and all other personal status matters.

For the vast majority of women who are Muslim, the implementation of `iddah or the obligation of a man to support a woman for 3 months after he divorces her (a term long enough to see whether she is pregnant with his child) has the effect of abolishing the divorced woman's right to alimony. This abrogation of alimony was effected for Muslims in India in the mid-1980s with the Shah Banou case, as the Congress Party's sop to Indian Muslim fundamentalists. The particular form of Islamic law that the IGC seems to envisage operating would also give men the right of unilateral divorce over their wives, gives men the right to take second, third and fourth wives, and gives girls half as much inheritance from the father's estate as boys.

Since the Interim Governing Council was appointed directly by the United States, it is in effect an organ of the Occupation Authority. As such, it is a contravention of the 1907 Hague Regulations for it to change civil law in an occupied territory. The US appointed a number of clerics and leaders of religious parties to the IGC, almost ensuring that this sort of thing would happen.

The US is now in the position of imposing on the Iraqi public, including the 50% who are women, a theocratic code of personal status. The question is whether this step is just the first in the road to an Iraqi theocracy.


I wonder how we/the IGC are gonna enforce this, given this sort of opposition in parts of the country. In Iran after the Islamists took over the gov't, they started passing these extremely draconian laws on the rights of women. This triggered mass-protest among women, causing the gov't to back down. Instead they passed the laws piece by piece (i.e. first women had to wear a hijab during work - then they had to wear a hijab in any public place - then then had to wear a hijab in front of any male non-relative). Will we see something similar?

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 14-01-2004 14:03 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
quote:
The group being diverse doesn't make it democratic.


Well that's the freaking reason for it being diverse! DUH!


I suggest you look up the definition of democratic. Just because a group is diverse does not mean that it represents the will of the people.

Being diverse guarantees only that it is an oligarchy, not a monarchy.

Unless you wish to suggest the feudal system was democratic?

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