11-01-2004 10:51									#1
	Units - Balance Army Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Hey this question may have been stated and or solved in some other thread, but does anyone know what units to use against what units? Like normally in Strategy games the programmers great units to balace other units out and such. Does anyone know what Civ3's equivelant is???
Like Horsemen work against Archers,
Archers work against swordsmen and
swordsmen work against Horsemen???
Thats sort of thing (AND WOW IS THAT OFF!)

But yeh just would like to know!
Thanks!




- Do not wake a night owl that never sleeps.

	11-01-2004 11:25									#2
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AFAIK there is no unit to unit bonus. The combat is resolved on a attack rating vs defensive rating. Modified by and bonus for terrain/fort/river/city/wall and if they are fast units or not.

All of these are not unit dependant perse. I mean fast is not given to all, but it is not a case of spear vs horse gets a bonus.

So if all things are equal you only need to have a better A vs D and pray for a favorable RNG.

	11-01-2004 11:58									#3
	Remove this text

The only thing like that in Civ3 is slowmovers versus fastmovers (i.e., 1 mp versus >1 mp)... fastmovers can retreat, whether on offense or defense, which likelihood increases with experience.

There were unit balances like that in Civ2 (e.g., Pikeman versus mounted units), but no longer.

	11-01-2004 12:39									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

So theres no real way to discribe which units are useful against other units? (especially in past expirences) If it all just has to do with those three numbers than what is the unit that is the offset of those numbers?
like 1.2.1. vs 2.1.1. works well or something????

Its only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything.

	11-01-2004 13:04									#5
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Just compare attack strength to NET defense strength.

Since I do not know where on the net the combat calculators are, I advise you to look in the Editor:
General Settings tab for town/city/metro, river, fortification (unit is fortified), etc.
Terrain tab for various terrain on the tile (10% defensive bonus for grassland to 100% for mountains).

	12-01-2004 00:30									#6
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There a few calc around. The DES_020 is straight forward. A 2 att vs 2 def will be a dead heat. Add in fort to the defender and the attacker is toast. Change the defender back and add retreat to the attacker and it 60-40. So it comes down to the modifications to defense or attack that matter.

	12-01-2004 00:33									#7
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Civ is more number crunching compared to RTS rock-paper-scissors systems. Learn the things that give defensive bonus. Terrain, attacking across rivers, fortification and city bonus.

	12-01-2004 00:51									#8
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Here is a pretty good calculator:

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3combatcalc.html

	12-01-2004 05:29									#9
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It does not have C3C units.

	12-01-2004 06:01									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Oh, shoot, I thought you could override the a/d values manually. Still a good start though.

	12-01-2004 12:57									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I have that 1.42 xls version, but I never did figure out to use it, so I go with DES.

	13-01-2004 02:35									#12
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My personal combat calculator is luck. Just throw enough units at another unit and eventually, you will win. (helps to use Arty bombard first).

Like was mentioned above, it's mostly a numbers game. Attack value vs Defense value and the RNG thrown-in just to really confuse things (that's why ocationally, a Spearman can defeat a Tank).

As far as 'Balancing' units. Use the old-time balance-scale method. If it would tip in your favor, you're probably ok, if it tips in the AI's favor, you're probably screwed.

Steven

	13-01-2004 05:49									#13
	Increase the size of your Attachments

The calcualor is used for test, not really during the game. Since there is so much randomness, it is not a true predictor, but rather a guide. What should happen in the long run. But is uefull if you have a doubt about things like terrain and such.

	13-01-2004 07:00									#14
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there are some units with Air defense bonuses(boni?), flak, sams, aegis, thats as far as it gets even in C3C

	15-01-2004 04:42									#15
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The biggest rock/scissors/paper element in Civ 3 is the division between offensive and defensive units. For example, archers not escorted by spearmen are vulnerable to enemy archers. On the other hand, using spearmen to attack is generally suicide. A similar element exists with bombardment units: they can be powerful additions to a stack, but if they aren't protected adequately, they can be captured by the enemy. Late in the game, flack units are useful when attacked by enemy aircraft but largely useless otherwise. So there is some element of specialization, but not down to a "this unit against that unit" level.

	15-01-2004 06:45									#16
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Ah, sorry, Nathan makes an EXCELLENT point. Combined forces is really the answer to the question, as opposed to uni-versus-unit specific capabilities.

And his first example is perfect, what is generally referred to as the Archer Rush (see: Sir Ralph). You're sending 6-8 Archers at your early neighbor... Who you gonna call? Spearmen. Etc etc.