11-01-2004 12:05									#1
	Negotiations Enter the AD-FREE zone

Does it bother anyone else that while negotiating with the AI, you can determine exactly how much gold they are willing to give/demand through trial-and-error? How hard would it be to have them raise their demands the more a player badgers them for a deal or something?

	11-01-2004 12:56									#2
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Doesn't bother ME. If I am in a strong position, yet don't want to impoverish them, I will often lower their gpt obligations anyway.

	12-01-2004 00:08									#3
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Well it sort of does bother me. I figure why waste my time, just give me the optimal number to offer and be done with it.

	12-01-2004 00:15									#4
	Got spare money?

Yeah, the trial and error is a bit annoying at times. I've heard that if you give them what they ask for, they're happier, but I don't know if that is just pure conjecture. Usually I do unless its a tight game, out of pure laziness.

better than the civ2 diplomacy, but needs some improvement in Civ4

	12-01-2004 05:18									#5
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Yes, I believe that giving the asking price rather than haggling will make them happier, but who ever does that?

It would be nice if one negotiated with the foreign leader, rather than with one's own foreign adviser, as currently happens, but there you go. You do need the adviser to help you to some degree, or you could find yourself insulting the dignitary without meaning to - because it's often very hard to predict how much your negotiating partner will value what you're offering. I'd like it if your adviser warns you if you're making a ridiculously high or ridiculously low offer, but was vaguer in the middle - "They might take this. Give it a try!" etc. Then you'd have a back-and-forth conversation with the foreign leader, which might be a bit more interesting.

	12-01-2004 06:09									#6
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Is it too much to ask for a slider to set gold amounts? It gets really tedious when trying to figure out exactly how much you can squeeze out of someone without one.

jon.

	12-01-2004 08:36									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Plotinus Yes, I believe that giving the asking price rather than haggling will make them happier, but who ever does that?

But I think it is the final amount that determines their reaction. If you haggle around and then give them more than you need to, they react positively as much as if you gave it to them the first time. I haven't tested this, but it seems to be the case.

I agree it would be a nice touch if the advisor wasn't perfectly accurate with his assessment.

	12-01-2004 08:56									#8
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Well it sort of does bother me. I figure why waste my time, just give me the optimal number to offer and be done with it.

	12-01-2004 09:04									#9
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quote: I agree it would be a nice touch if the advisor wasn't perfectly accurate with his assessment.

"Well, the Germans will probably need 30g for this. Unless you also include something more on your side. But they might need more."
"How was I supposed to know they'd be insulted at anything less than 150g! Is it my fault they declared war!!??"
"What are you about to do with that crowbar, Prime Minister?"

	12-01-2004 21:47									#10
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by joncha Is it too much to ask for a slider to set gold amounts? It gets really tedious when trying to figure out exactly how much you can squeeze out of someone without one. jon.

or at least "+/-" buttons so that you could increment/decrement the offer w/o having to retype the entire amount.

Steven

	12-01-2004 22:33									#11
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I find that the AI (in most situations) tends to ask for about 20% more than they'll eventually settle for. I'll use that as a rule of thumb, and then adjust my offer according to what my advisor says. (Still can't figure out why my Foreign Advisor knows exactly what my adversary will require to end a war, but can't give me advance warning that the same adversary is about to strike! I suspect he's really working for the other side. Stupid diplomat!!!!)

It's still a horribly tedious affair going through all that work. A better user interface would definitely help.

	15-01-2004 21:14									#12
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TS,

Yes, your Dilpomatic Advisor is a paid agent for the enemies of the state. Unfortunately, other than their go-between task, they are just there to dress up the interface.

The Diplomatic model would be much more useful if you could get information from your diplomats on what the conditions are like in the countryside, without having to investigate each city, since intelligence gathering was and still is a primary role for a diplomat. It's just non-military intel. Let them gather information on attitudes and economics, what the other civs are researching.

Just the typical stuff from dinner parties and social outtings with the society's upper crust. (like stale bread?)

Maybe for Civ IV...

D.

	15-01-2004 21:27									#13
	Increase the size of your Attachments

This is one of my least favorite parts of the game, especially when combined with the fact that, to maximize your opportunities, you need to contact every single civ you've met on Every. Stinking. Turn. Aren't computers supposed to make our lives easier by taking on all the tedious work we can't be bothered to do?

	15-01-2004 21:45									#14
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quote: Originally posted by DaveV This is one of my least favorite parts of the game, especially when combined with the fact that, to maximize your opportunities, you need to contact every single civ you've met on Every. Stinking. Turn. Aren't computers supposed to make our lives easier by taking on all the tedious work we can't be bothered to do?

Perhaps, but Computers don't come along until the game is almost over anyway.

How about an improvement allowable by Computers for Auto Intel or something like that.

Steven

	16-01-2004 13:00									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Tall Stranger I find that the AI (in most situations) tends to ask for about 20% more than they'll eventually settle for.

Strange. I've found that it's 10% - almost without exception.