12-01-2004 00:03									#1
	T83 : 950 Bc Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Ciao : After setting Izz for +5fpt, +10spt, and CoS for 5spt and mkt in 5 turns, and giving a mined grass to Ciao from Swindon - gives Ciao 4spt, not 2spt as suggested in the previous turn thread.

Frumpy moves 2,2,4

Cubmaster moves 7,8

Chariots to Swindon.

Conscripts towards Plymouth

Reg from Ciao moves onto worker

NW3 mines

Northern scout moves back west as lookout as chariot out there moves east.

FP moves 1

Reg Archer? Coudn't see where he was going from the last turn thread, where he moved 2. Don't know ....go into Corinth

Wierd - but Izz has vanished from the top 5 cities. At No 5 is a MAST city called 'New Izzardia".

Sorry, no screenshots - have to dash.

	12-01-2004 18:21									#2
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quote: Wierd - but Izz has vanished from the top 5 cities. At No 5 is a MAST city called 'New Izzardia".

That's pretty funny, actually. I assume they built an early temple or somesuch, and have surpassed Izz's paltry culture.

I was gonna send the regular archer west. No biggie, we can start him westward next turn.

The regular warriors near corinth should go towards Plymouth, there to be disbanded, right?

That's all I can think of. Good job. I logged on to see if the save was in yesterday, but apparently I did it too early.

-Arrian

-Arrian

	12-01-2004 20:23									#3
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Yes, Plymouth is the disband-shop for the warriors. I was wondering whether maybe you fancied the archer in the jungle, as we had a camp there recently and they sometimes like the same areas. West next turn will keep the options open.

Did you notice the barb camp in the far south-west? We saw that with Python's WM.

Our culture dropped off during the revolution, so maybe that's knocked our city off (didn't know that culture was so important for the ranking). MAST must have noticed it and decided to rename their capital for a laugh. Maybe we can return the joke someday.

	12-01-2004 20:25									#4
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Wild shot - how about a stab at the Colossus in Burundy?

	12-01-2004 20:50									#5
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Well, as much as I love the Colossus (it's one of my favorite wonders in the game), it carries certain baggage for we English Izzardians. It will trigger our GA. I don't think I want our GA yet.

Granted, it would take Burundy ~40 turns to build the Colossus. Once the mine currently being worked on is complete, the city will have 5spt, IIRC. It will lose 1 to waste, so net of 4spt. The workers will have to get another mine up and running, at which point the city will have 8spt, losing 1 to waste (?), for a net of 7spt.

Still, I'd really prefer to delay our GA until we do some serious jungle clearing and get more of our cities' population up. Essentially once we're done REXing and are ready for some serious building. We won't be there in 40 or 50 turns, will we?

-Arrian

	12-01-2004 21:22									#6
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NEWFLASH:

Didit-didit-didit==Monkey speaks! Messages from and to Monkeyland==Didit-didit-didit.

First off, we need to pay them for the hut: Mysticism. I guess we kinda spaced that one, eh?

Second, we need to STALL on republic! Giving it to them now is too soon. We want them in anarchy when we strike.

Therefore, I think what we should probably do is demand they pay us for the tech. Republic is expensive, and it would likely take them some time to raise the cash. Then we do the deal, and they're broke and in anarchy when we hit them.

Republic is what, 20 research cost? On Monarch, that's over 500 beakers. They would have to raise ~170 gold to pay us 1/3 beaker cost.

-Arrian

	12-01-2004 21:35									#7
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Ok, I crunched some numbers on Burundy. First, some assumptions:

Currently at 3spt, with 3 in the box. Mine completes in a few turns, I used T85 as the completion date. I then assumed that 2 of them would move to another hill to mine/road. The city grows in 4 turns (T87), and I'd assume we would use another hill, sacrificing some commerce for production. I assume we lose 1spt to waste once the city hits 5spt.

Based on all that, the Colossus would take ~33 turns to build if we started now.

-Arrian

	12-01-2004 21:35									#8
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It's Regent, I think.

I thought we'd sent them Mysticism - ho hum.

About Republic, yes we have to stall. Taking money rather than tech before plunging the knife in seems somehow worse, from a scruples perspective, though perhaps it makes no difference. I don't know if there's an alternative. Treachery is treachery. 'Good of the Country' and all that

	12-01-2004 21:47									#9
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If it's regent, and republic is a cost20 tech, then it's 480 beakers. 480/3 = 160g.

-Arrian

	12-01-2004 21:56									#10
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160g for Republic sounds a bit of a bargain, to me.

	12-01-2004 22:01									#11
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The tech cost in the Editor is 28 for Republic - how does this figure relate to beakers?

	12-01-2004 22:12									#12
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Multiply by 24. And that's if we're definitely on Regent. On Monarch, there is a further 10% hit to human research.

28*24 = 672 beakers. 1/3 = 224 gold.

Excellent.

-Arrian

	12-01-2004 22:16									#13
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How does rushing our 2nd galley on T89 (so it completes on T90) sound to you?

I figure we can found a town 112 of Plymouth on T91 that can serve as our forward base (land and sea). We send the two galleys out, deal with barb galleys, return to this new city to pick up 4 swordsmen, sail south, dump those near PC, and then continue sailing 'round.

-Arrian

	12-01-2004 22:18									#14
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Confirmed - Regent.

	12-01-2004 22:22									#15
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Including four disbanding warriors, the galley on T89 would have 21 shields needing 36g to rush. Sounds good.

	12-01-2004 22:30									#16
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On the Colossus - we'd want to be in the Middle Ages, so us and Python would need to have finished Polytheism and Construction,

We can breeze Polythesim in 8 turns, but we need to know if Python are doing 1 scientist Construction - which would not be good for us. If they're doing 10%, at least they're accumulating some real beakers and can put the gas down later.

	12-01-2004 22:32									#17
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Good, actually, that makes the calculations easier. It also explains why I was off on the pottery calculations all those turns ago, I think. Oops.

City build orders: We can configure Swindon and Silesia to both get 5spt, IIRC, so those two build our warriors. Ciao should probably build 1 more spearman, at least (in fact, I think we should probably leave it on spearmen for a while, so we have settler escorts. Swindon/Silesia should be on offensive troops).

T84: Swindon finishes chariot, goes to warrior.
T85: Silesia finishes chariots, goes to warrior.
T86/87 - warriors done.
T88/89 - warriors done.
T90/91 - warriors done.
T92/93 - warriors done.
T93/94 - warriors done.

That's ten. Get iron from Pythons on T95, upgrade swords in Silesia. T96, they cross the river. T97, they make it to (and some past) Plymouth. 4 board galleys waiting in the town, and they galleys sail south. The fort town should be founded this turn. T98: barracks rushed in fort town, troops and galleys continue south. T99: barracks complete, fort town gifted to Python. Troops reach town 112 of Plymouth, our forward base. Galleys sail on.

-Arrian

	12-01-2004 22:34									#18
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I doubt we can breeze Polytheism in 8 turns while hording the cash necessary for our troop upgrades/galley rushing. Especially as the troop numbers increase, cutting into our gpt surplus. And even if we're in the middle ages, the fact remains our empire is small and low-pop.

-Arrian

	12-01-2004 23:05									#19
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True - I was thinking of after we've raised the cash for upgrades - but at the end of the day - yes, our empire is not large enough for a spectacular GA .

If HBR comes on about T85 that gives 10 turns to raise ~360g at ~40gpt max cash. Sounds right.

	12-01-2004 23:07									#20
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- I forgot to include the 36g for the galley. Hmm - certainly close enough to be interesting

	12-01-2004 23:33									#21
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Yeah, the money is going to be tight. Hopefully we can rake in some cash on the final turn of HBR research to help offset the current -5 gpt.

Even then, however, we might be a little short.

Therefore, the first upgrades should be the swordsmen. The chariots should just hang out (and look cool) for now. Once we are done with the swords, and do the whole war/peace thing with Python to nullify the horses and iron trades, we can upgrade chariots as best we can. The Horsies, being faster, can hopefully catch up to our main force.

Speaking of which, damn, I just realized we're going to have problems with our catapults: they cannot move through unroaded jungle.

We may have to try and get the southern fort town back from Python for a turn or two after their army passes through and send our troops through there. OR, hmm, we could allow Python to capture the cats and use them for a while (so long as we get 'em back).

Hmm. Hilda, Hilda, bring me a map of everything!

-Arrian