12-01-2004 09:52									#1
	Peace Proposal Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Please review and discuss:

quote: To the Kingdom of España: Due to the termination of hostilites in the Bobian continent, the Glory of War would officially like to extend to your Kingdom an offer of peace. This will remove once and for all the vestiges of conflict which has for many years cast a shadow over this war-torn world. We are confident that the renewal of our two nations' relationship, though perhaps not enough to heal the scars that the Great War has caused, can be mutually beneficial and can open the doors for a highly productive exchange of ideas and goods in the future. We await your Kingdom's response, and are hitherto open to further negotiation on these matters of peace. Best regards, -Master Zen Emperor of the Glory of War

--Togas

	12-01-2004 19:05									#2
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Perhaps a little support for the rebuilding of Ravaged Spain would be kind? Arnelos suggested it some time ago as a trade for ending the WW for them.

I'm fine with ending the War, but a present from them would greatly help to transform this idea into a vote in favor.

Aidun

	13-01-2004 05:49									#3
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I suggested that? I don't remember that being my suggestion. I think my suggestion was along different lines, that our future allies would be at peace with us and our future enemies would be at war and we could make a decision on who to be at war with and who to be at peace with based upon that determination.

From my perspective, if we do not intend to fight Glory of War in the near future, I can't see how we justify continuing war with them.

That said, if GoW is feeling gracious in victory, I'm not going to complain about that.

	13-01-2004 05:50									#4
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Speaking of the near-term question... what's up with that? What is Gathering Storm planning? What is going on with ND and GoW and Legoland?

That's the basis for making this decision, I think.

	13-01-2004 07:40									#5
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Guys, we only have 1 vote so far plus my abstain vote. Please post and vote on this very important issue.

--Togas

	13-01-2004 22:51									#6
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Well Togas, you know I'm with you BUT as I said, peace is not like shaking hands and forget what happened. I want somehow payment from GoW. We are small and weak, so we can't demand much, but some gift would be fine. Let's see what their reaction is.

Practically, in the negotiations, we can call it a gift to show good intentions from their side. Tell them that it might perhaps change our behaviour towards them in future decisions.If they refuse, you can say that making peace will be very difficult then. Finally we will not let it come to a confrontation, but this kind of roleplay in diplomacy won't harm us.

A gift can be everything: money for building op what they destroyed, luxuries, resources, I'm fine with everything.

There is but for everything a price, peace too.

Making peace with them for free is just the opposite of the attitude we have had towards them: we have turned down any peace deal with them because there was nothing in it. Even now GoW will not get away with peace for free, or at least we try to not let them get away with it.

Arnelos, sorry for mistaking what you said. I have apparently misunderstood your pleas in the diplomacy thread.

Aidun

	14-01-2004 02:20									#7
	Got spare money?

The way I see it, we need to have a discussion with Gathering Storm about plans for the future before we make a decision on peace with either GoW or ND. AFAIK, GS and RP have yet to have such a discussion and yet to truly plan the immediate future. I don't want to go to peace with GoW only to redeclare on them 10 turns later and give them a happiness boost. That's not being fair, that's being stupid.

If we're truly going to be at peace for a long time to come, then I see no excuse for us to remain at war. Whether or not we ask for something in return is a seperate matter, though I can't see us being able to ask for very much.

	14-01-2004 02:40									#8
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The plan for GS is simple.

They want us to make peace with ND/GoW so that they can split the ND and GoW alliance.

GS thinks that the game will be handed to whom ever GoW supports. Be that ND or Lego. GoW already believes that it can't win the gaem, as have we. But, who will GoW be willing to help? ND definately thinks it can win as does Lego. GS feels that we need to get GoW to side againt either Lego or ND soon, then we side with the other side to help weaken all of them. There's alot we don't know about what will happen. But, we do know that the ND/GoW alliance won't start to deteriorate as long as they have a common enemy in RP and thus GS as well by association.

That said, I would like to attempt to get something from GoW and ND for our peace. It's worth a try at least IMO. If after a few rounds of negotions, they don't want to give us anything, we will sign the peace treaty anywyas; but no need to let them know that now.

	14-01-2004 02:42									#9
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Oh, I voted 'no' because we do not acept peace with them until we have attempted to negotiate a settlement from them. In their letter they state their openess to "to further negotiation on these matters of peace." Lets see what we can get.

	14-01-2004 03:23									#10
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Ok, then let's negotiate with them. If what you have stated is the GS plan for the future (it seems consistent with what very little I've heard from them of late), then this sounds like a plan.

I'd be more than happy to sit down in chat with MZ and try to see what we can get with the knowledge that we will be signing peace with them, but would like the war to truly end, not simply be declaring an effective cease-fire. In that light, we would want something from GoW for the war to truly end rather than to simply go into hybernation.

	14-01-2004 11:16									#11
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yes, agreed. A true peace, not just a cease fire.

	15-01-2004 01:48									#12
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Arnelos, I think you, BigFree and I have reached consensus. I support this plan and my vote on YES is therefore a vote on this plan. Whatever the outcome will but be, we have to establish longlasting peace soon, otherwise relations with GS could become troubled too.

Aidun