14-01-2004 03:16									#1
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Himself:

quote: British Doctor Who Killed 215 Hangs Himself By LIZETTE ALVAREZ Published: January 13, 2004 ONDON, Jan. 13 — Harold Shipman, the suburban doctor who won his patients' trust before killing at least 215 of them, committed suicide in his prison cell today, prison officials said. Prison officials found Dr. Shipman, Britain's most prolific mass murderer, hanging from a noose fashioned out of bed sheets this morning. Staff members at the Wakefield Prison in West Yorkshire failed in their attempts to revive him. Jane Parsons, a spokeswoman for the Prison Service, said Dr. Shipman, who had been on suicide watch on-and-off at other prisons, was not considered a risk to himself at the time of his death. Dr. Shipman was serving 15 consecutive life terms, without parole. "His behavior was not a cause for concern," she said. "He had not received any threats." An investigation into the death will be carried out by Stephen Shaw, who will be the first person to fill the role of prisons and probations ombudsman. Dr. Shipman, a gray-bearded, bespectacled doctor from Hyde, a suburb of Manchester in northern England, was convicted four years ago of murdering 15 of his patients through lethal injection. An official inquiry in 2002, headed by Dame Janet Smith, a High Court judge, found he had actually murdered 215 patients, and possibly as many as 260, over period of 23 years. The doctor, a married father of four, never admitted his guilt. "He betrayed their trust in a way and to an extent that I believe is unparalleled in history," Dame Janet said upon completion of the inquiry. The inquiry report pointed to loopholes in the law that allowed Dr. Shipman to kills scores of people without suspicion, singled out two Manchester police detectives for bungling the investigation into the doctor and called for reforms in the coroners' office. Dubbed "Dr. Death" by the press, Dr. Shipman preyed on elderly or middle-aged patients, usually women living alone, who needed checkups or complained of mild ailments. Once inside their homes, he would administer a deadly injection, usually containing heroin. Dr. Shipman had found ways of stockpiling the drug, either by prescribing it falsely or stealing it from cancer patients. Upon the death of a patient, the doctor easily persuaded bereaved relatives that no autopsies were needed, offering ready explanations for their sudden demise. Many of the victims were cremated, along with all evidence of Dr. Shipman's wrongdoing. The sheer number of people he killed, and the simple, nonviolent way he killed them, shocked and horrified people in Britain, and made headlines for months. Dr. Shipman's trial judge, Justice Forbes, described his crimes as "wicked, wicked." "I have little doubt that each of your victims smiled and thanked you as she submitted to your deadly administrations," he said, after Dr. Shipman's conviction. The quiet, respected doctor was caught only after Kathleen Grundy, the daughter of his last victim, challenged a will left by her mother. The revised will stated that all the money in the estate be left to Dr. Shipman. Her body was exhumed and doctors found traces of heroin in her remains. Dr. Shipman had a fondness for heroin. He abused a heroin-like drug in the 1970's, when he was already a practicing doctor. He was convicted of writing himself prescriptions, was fined and fired from his job. After a spell in drug rehabilitation, he resurfaced in 1977, when he began practicing medicine in Hyde. The relatives of Dr. Shipman's many victims said in news reports today that they felt cheated, calling Dr. Shipman's suicide an easy way out. They also expressed remorse over the fact that the deaths will never be explained. Judges and prosecutors have speculated that Dr. Shipman had a desire to play God. Dame Janet said he may have been "addicted to killing." Dr. Shipman's lawyer, Giovanni di Stefano, told The Evening Standard of London that prison officials failed to safeguard his client. "The fact that he had done this is an outrage and the fault lies entirely, absolutely with the authorities." In 2003, 94 prisoners out of a population of 70,000 committed suicide in prison, according to the Prison Reform Trust. Last summer, Ian Huntley, a man accused of murdering two schoolgirls, attempted suicide by taking a drug overdose in an English prison. An inquiry was critical of the prison and said procedures to protect the prisoner "fell well short of acceptable standards."

	14-01-2004 03:26									#3
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How exactly is this good news? He could have badly damaged the window he hung himself from, and my taxes pay for it.

	14-01-2004 03:26									#4
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Goes to show that a murderer is merely an extrovert suicide.

	14-01-2004 03:31									#5
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Wouldn't he, technically, be a serial killer, and not a mass murderer.

	14-01-2004 04:20									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp How exactly is this good news? He could have badly damaged the window he hung himself from, and my taxes pay for it.

He probably ruined that sheet as well.

	14-01-2004 04:22									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp How exactly is this good news? He could have badly damaged the window he hung himself from, and my taxes pay for it.

Good point. Bastard to the last.

	14-01-2004 04:22									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp How exactly is this good news? He could have badly damaged the window he hung himself from, and my taxes pay for it.

Your taxes would be paying for his meals instead, so you're still out ahead of the game.

	14-01-2004 04:25									#9
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215!!




Holy ****!

	14-01-2004 06:48									#10
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why didn't he hang in the first place? wasting all that government money on someone who is going to be stuck in a prison the rest of his life anyway, whats the point? It could have been spent on toilet seats instead.

	14-01-2004 06:52									#11
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Even if he had recieved a death sentance, he would still be serving becasue the need to leave a few years for all appeals to pan out.

	14-01-2004 06:53									#12
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I wonder if Great Britain retroactively corrected the crime statistics during the years that he was active? His activities may have significantly increased the homicide rate for the country as a whole in some years.

	14-01-2004 07:03									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Winston Goes to show that a murderer is merely an extrovert suicide.

Kill all extraverts now before they kill us!

	14-01-2004 15:47									#14
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I did wonder when all the victims families were angry that he had killed himself as he did not serve his sentence. I'd like to argue that a full term life sentence usually ends when the person in question dies...

Anyway, I don't get why prisons try to stop people from committing suicide, especially lifers. It'd make more sense to provide them with the facilities to do so (say a "noose room").

	14-01-2004 16:04									#15
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When we had the death penalty in the UK appeals were concluded in weeks.

Of course our guttersnipe press are pestering the families of victims again (my distaste for their antics grows daily) and it is noticeable that the families are reported as being fed up about the man dieing. On the basis, I think, that as Shipman wanted to die they wanted him to be denied his wish.

Which, bearing in mind what is often said about the death penalty, illustrates just how odd vindictiveness can be.

Although whether it is sensible to pay the slightest regard to the stuff which the press churn out on these occasions is another matter.

We have between one and two suicides in prison every week. I defended a civil claim brought by the family of one young man who hanged himself while on suicide watch (quite a number of years ago now) and it was reasonably clear that preventing suicide in a prison is pretty well impossible. You need all the resources of a hospital in order to have a decent chance. Which you just don't have in a prison.

	14-01-2004 16:09									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove I wonder if Great Britain retroactively corrected the crime statistics during the years that he was active? His activities may have significantly increased the homicide rate for the country as a whole in some years.

There was probably not enough evidence in most of the cases for the coroner's office to find the deaths wrongful.

Likely the number 215 was arrived at through some reasonalbe assumptions about cases that suddenly went south. Until they could provide concrete evidence of wrongful death, they would not be ruled homicides, and would not be entered in crime statistics, AFAIK

	14-01-2004 16:11									#17
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And as to the suicide, if the person is shown to be legally competent I see no reason why anybody should interfere. Have him sign a form and give him a noose.

	14-01-2004 16:29									#18
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The typical gaol suicide is young, male, on remand for a relatively petty crime, schizophrenic and very upset and disorientated.

The notion that they know what they are doing is, frankly, bizarre.

Shipman is another kettle of fish altogether and in his particular case I rather agree with you. But it beggars belief that we will ever come across another human being as weird as he.

	14-01-2004 16:32									#19
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Bit of a mystery this as his appeal was coming up, and he claimed innocence till the day he died.

Some of the victims reletives feel robbed that he didn't do his time.

Maybe we should wire up heartbeat sensors to all prisoners to make sure they don't get the easy way out?

	14-01-2004 16:34									#20
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15 he was convicted of, 200 more then have decided he did and 45 are still being considered.

The best thing about this, apart from "good riddance", is that it will hopefully kill off, or at least reduce, the number of books and articles written by people trying to cash in on his crimes. At least he can't now give interviews and string the gullible idiots along the way some other notorious murderers are doing.

And any campaign in future to get him released or transferred to a less strict prison just got washed out.

	14-01-2004 18:09									#21
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link

	14-01-2004 18:14									#22
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3394811.stm

quote: Shipman was jailed for life in January 2000 for murdering 15 patients while working as a GP in Hyde, Greater Manchester. An official report concluded he killed at least 215 patients over a 23-year period, but that the final death toll could be as high as 260.

	14-01-2004 18:17									#23
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Yes I saw that part

The real question and general abandonment of mankind comes at this point:

quote: Dr. Shipman's lawyer, Giovanni di Stefano, told The Evening Standard of London that prison officials failed to safeguard his client. "The fact that he had done this is an outrage and the fault lies entirely, absolutely with the authorities."

why..

WHY

	14-01-2004 18:22									#24
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I take it these case are not judged standard practice in socialized medicine?

	14-01-2004 18:33									#25
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Our doctors lack a commercial motive for overpresribing and excessively intrusive medical procedures, Lefty.

They usually leave such things to those with a profit motive.

	14-01-2004 18:38									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Zylka Yes I saw that part The real question and general abandonment of mankind comes at this point: why.. WHY

Don't be so dumb, Zylka.

First, the lawyer is going to sue for however much he can screw out of the system. He's just lost a lot of bread from the guy dying.

Second, if you deny people freedom to punish them (what prison is all about) then you inherit responsibility for their welfare.

Get it now? I understand the Dr was checked every hour or so.

Last year 100 prisoners successfully killed themselves in Brit jails.

	14-01-2004 19:16									#27
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quote: Originally posted by East Street Trader Our doctors lack a commercial motive for overpresribing and

Likewise, they lack a commercial motive for providing a level of service and dignity to the patients (or even to keep them alive), and have that (hopefully small) portion of their motivation replacement by bureacractic considerations. I had all of two years with medical insurance of any kind, and I cheerfully escaped from that horror, where you are treated as a claim form and not a patient (besides 70% increased medical costs {whoever had to pay them} to cover all the additional paper work).

	14-01-2004 20:11									#28
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They do indeed lack commercial motivation.

Instead they are mostly (leaving the weird Dr Shipman to one side) motivated by a desire to help their patients.

We do not lack for bureaucracy in our health service but it tends to be decently confined to cases where clerk deals with clerk. Patients are relatively little involved with form filling.

And, of course, issues as to who pays don't generally arise.

There are considerable problems with publicly funded health care. But the motivation of the doctors is not one. And whenever I hear tell of the US situation I find myself giving thanks for what we have. Viewed from a distance, health care operated as a business seems a horrid thing.

Oh, and nice to meet up with you again, Lefty.

	15-01-2004 00:58									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola Likewise, they lack a commercial motive for providing a level of service and dignity to the patients (or even to keep them alive), and have that (hopefully small) portion of their motivation replacement by bureacractic considerations. I had all of two years with medical insurance of any kind, and I cheerfully escaped from that horror, where you are treated as a claim form and not a patient (besides 70% increased medical costs {whoever had to pay them} to cover all the additional paper work).

Despite those theories, the NHS is the most respected organisation in Britain- it even leaves the BBC trailing a distant second. Though cack-handed governments and dozy administrators mean waiting lists for some procedures are unfortunately long, we have a good and universally-available health service.

It's one thing about Britain I'm very proud of.

	15-01-2004 01:31									#30
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Sounds decent enough. They must be doing some sort of good job administratively to keep the numbers of providers and other personnel high enough to make it work that well. So, East Street, Trader, when are you going to get to texas for some Barbeque?