14-01-2004 22:45									#1
	Barbarian embassy Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I incited revolution in another civ city, it turned to barb, obviously, I then sent diplomat, he went though the flag waving and horn blowing of starting an embassy. Even in the message dialog box stated started an embassy, but in the diplomat screen barb did not show up all the other embassy civs did. I am taking it this is not a bug but design.

	14-01-2004 23:06									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Both, I think. Barbs don't do diplomacy. But, on the other hand, it would be better if you got the clunking sound and the red circle with a line through it when you tried to establish the embassy.

	16-01-2004 04:34									#3
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

The Barbarians are not on the list of civs of the Diplomanager, and therefore no embassy shows up, but I agree it shouldn't be possible to establish an embasy at the Barbarians at all.

-Martin

	20-01-2004 07:03									#4
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I think its stupid that cities turn to barbarian anyway, there should be another barb type civ (Rebels) or something, that are specifically for rebelling cities/units turning rebel due to 0 pay (no cash in tresury) etc. Also a percentage chance that the rebelling city turns into a brand new civilization or joins another civilization currently ingame.

(This could be based on cultural and/or diplomatic factors, but i wont get into these until around 2007 when the Source code work has reached this stage :P)

	23-01-2004 05:20									#5
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quote: Originally posted by SMIFFGIG brand new civilization or joins another civilization currently ingame.

This happened in ctp it got to a stage that the game could crash when it ranout of civs

	23-01-2004 06:33									#6
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well it would be nice
firstly to have more civs

secondly using the source code, program it to when its ran out of civs, join already exsisting civs depending on certain factors )e.g. Civ with greatest attributes in certain criteria involving the situation etc (possibly distance, culture.. when we get to that stage)

I have no idea how plausable this is to implement but its just an idea

	23-01-2004 11:37									#7
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Rebels sounds nice!

They should operate under some sort of special revolutionary government type. With neat bonuses for military units and production.

I dont think a revolt should necessarily join another civ by default in any case. This is a poor solution and not very realistic.

If a city does join another civ the winning civ should have to pay penalties in wealth and resources to acquire it. This assumes that a revolt that is sponsored by another civ is not a freebie.

And nothing sucks more than a city joining your civ when you dont actually want it. So being able to decide to sponsor a revolution or declining to do so would be great.


One thing that the game neglects is the use of special units like guerilla fighthers etc. Seems to me that most modern rebels are a good mix of special forces and regular troops.

This idea reminds me of another one that i have been pondering about. Successful revolutions allways require good amounts of weapons. Sometimes rebels buy weapons from established nations. It would be cool to have an arms market that civs could participate in too. Think about it selling off obsolete tanks and other things like that to rebels. Perhaps you could even give them away to help destabalize an enemy. This could also be achieved through adding the option to give units in the diplomacy menu. (allthough not as much fun)

The last element to make this work nice would be some sort of diplomatic negotiation with rebels. If civs negotiate with rebels give them money or whatever winning them over then maybe they put down the rebellion and rejoin the host civ. Or maybe a rival civ butters their toast better and they join them instead. Or maybe they just decide to play all sides and form an independent nation.

But here is what i think should be the catch to them forming their own nations. There should be a certain amount of territory or number of cities "liberated" by them before they declare independece.

Its a thought anyway

	23-01-2004 15:18									#8
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Nice idea lets have a spin on that

When a city rebels it becomes a civ instantly. Lets call this civ the American rebels this civ can only have the anarchy government represent the different factions inside the rebels. After a set number of cities have fallen to them they become independent and become the free Americans. The free Americans have all the tech of the Americans and can now select any govermant they want. When the Americans finally fall the free Americans drop the free.

Now the clever bit if a free America city rebel’s it become a American rebel but until the Americans or the free Americans get wiped out they must stay like that.

	23-01-2004 17:15									#9
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Rebel civs are a great way of completely changing the direction of a game, especially as it can occur at almost any point, even when a game has become stale and predictable.

How about this: It takes a lot to make a city revolt and form a rebel civ, but when it does, any other cities in the civ that are rioting also join the rebels. (all units created by the rebel cities also join the rebels)
This makes things simple and sudden, gives the new civ a fighting chance (v important) rather than it being a single city waiting for others to join it, and also adds another dimension to the rest of the game, as the more you neglect your civs happiness (and not pay attention to riots), the greater chance of a big revolution.

I don't like the idea of naming the rebel civ after the old (rebel americans, new americans etc) and having lots of name changes. This makes things confusing for other players, and assumes that one civ will conquer the other quickly which may not be the case. After all, Americans revolted against the british, and they're called americans, not the 'free british'.

Could a moderator move this thread to the source code project forum?

	23-01-2004 21:10									#10
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I would like to thank every one for their replies and insight. These may be something that may be incorperated in future games. Or mods. Thanks again

	26-01-2004 17:16									#11
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A favourite tactic of mine used in terrotories I don't want to directly control (empire size reasons etc) is to start a revolution in a city there, bully it into trade pacts and alliance etc, so that it is totally a surrogate of my empire, then use my armies to attack other cities in the same are and hand them over to the revolutionaries, thus creating a new nation. I did this in my current game, created (ironically) the American nation to the north of my already vast and sprawling Celtic Empire. The Americans started out as a Slavic slave-uprising, were befriended by me, and have since kept all the northern nations occupied by the wars of American expansionist ambitions.

The other nations of the vast continent I'm playing on will never again be united against the CE, like they were in the early turns when they all formed an Alliance against the Celts, The CE creation that is America is now more hated then the CE now, and because all the cities in the game are franchised by me and help sustain my vast military-industrial complex, blood-bathing is not an option. The facist regimes of Norway, France and Japan are welcome because they contribute more to the armed-forces of my super-power (keeping the world safe for democracy, freedom and trade) and their ongoing war with America keeps them from advancing significanlty or from bothering me too much.

I gave the Americans five cities at first (what used to be Brazil), since then they've taken four more for themselves, then they lost two, but they're still the fourth most powerful military in the game, and because I gave them military tech, (infantrymen) but not economic or industrial tech, they still rely on the friendship of the CE to keep their large army from banckrupting their nation. Once I found it necessary to make an Alliance with em so I could directly build up their transport infrastructure. Although earlier on on our relationship they got a little arrogant and extricated themselves from the allience etc, they came back though, once the money I'd given em ran out.

Puppet-ragimes eh... they're just like kids really.

Last edited by problem_child on 26-01-2004 at 18:33

	26-01-2004 18:31									#12
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I would really like to see more diplomacy action to help with the control of slave civs.