17-01-2004 22:04									#61
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It is best to get out of despotism quickly. In C3C you may elect to delay a tad, but in general don't make it a long one.

You could go with Monarchy in a crunch, instead of Republic, if you intend to war a great deal.

Wonders are level dependant and I want to get some in the ancient for the purpose of denial to the AI. This gets harder to do as you get to the highest levels.

As a rule of thumb, I would be content to get two at emperor. If I got none, I would probably be in some trouble. Could be a real bad start location or some serious bad luck/play.

	17-01-2004 23:13									#62
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God I loved republic in civ 3 but it has changed for the worse in c3c. I will try one of the others. I still dont understand any of the benifits of changing though. Especially with the persians they seem to thrive in depotism. But really whats the difference faster workers or is there something more. Because with so many workers in my last game playing as the mayans I dont see it making a huge difference.

	18-01-2004 01:48									#63
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Biggest mistake when it comes to war strategy - under-estimating the enemy. At least, in my case. "Ooh! I've built some nice shiny new Knights. Huzzah! Crusade time! He won't be able to stand these! Hang on, what's a Rifleman?"

The other, related mistake is to spread your forces too thin. "Well, I'll send two Swordsmen to take his capital. That leaves one Swordsman for this city, one for that one, and I'll polish off that one with the two remaining Archers. No need to build any defenders, he won't have any forces left after my devastating assault. Hey, what do all those little white lines mean next to his solitary Horseman?"

	18-01-2004 04:52									#64
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Biggest mistake in RTS and TBS game is thinking "This is good enough". Never stop building. Never stop improving never stop expanding. always exhaust your resources. Wasting/having them sit around do you no good at all. I know alot of scrubby players that stop building units and start saving resource (or in civ3 case use "wealth" the most inefficient crap). Unless you're saving resource for a purpose, its all you saved down the drain, cause your treasury isnt gonna help you win battles, help you produce/improve unless you spend it.

I agree that defense isnt necessary. I play Civ3 like how i play starcraft/warcraft. Incredibly aggresively without nothing to fal back on except my offense to push opponents away from my base/civ. I do build defensive units in civ though.... just like how I build "defensive" towers as a offensive mean in RTS.

	19-01-2004 04:20									#65
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I'm doing okay in my third game - but this defensive unit business - I build 2 per city. That doesn't seem excessive to me. I'm using conscription a lot to flesh out the garrisons. Then the vet and elite infantry can go to war - they defend key terrian, ride shot gun on the artillery and garrison captured cities. I now have 60 cities and can easily service a loose screen of infantry to make up a kind of frontline. I probably don't need that but I like to keep the enemy contained and the ai wastes a lot offensive units attacking the screen.

My offensive power is large stacks of attacking units. These stacks are made up of artillery with inf and flak, cavalry, conquistadors and tanks. Units are grouped according to their speed. I have 4 armies and they all operate independantly. The war effort is supported by aircraft.

Tell me if I'm doing it wrong. This is SP.

Last edited by Alexander's Horse on 19-01-2004 at 04:37

	19-01-2004 19:15									#66
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Mistakes.....not micromanaging.

Using governors is wildly inefficient.

Being one or two turns from finishing research on a Tech, and not checking if you can still hit it in the same number of turns by rebalancing your sliders in favour of more tax (could easily be 50 to 100 gold over a couple of turns in mid-game with a large empire).

Similarly, not checking on the city screen to see if you need all those shields to hit your next build in one or two turns, or could reallocate some of the pop to produce more trade/food, or as specialists for a turn or two.

Overproducing food uselessly in size 6 or 12 cities which can't expand, when a tax collector or scientist could be increasing your overall production in either of those areas.

Hours of fun - and terribly anal. But bit by bit i've put those pennies away in the treasury, and now have a good war chest to upgrade/rush enough units to give my sneering Frnech neighbours a kicking they won't forget.


Also, if building wonders, check the Wonders screen (can't remember which Function key number) to see who is already building - if necessary, spy on thier cities to see how long it will take them to complete....and who else may switch by choice or necessity from one Wonder to another (eg if they are beaten to it by a rival). It's not a failsafe (though it's much more useful now that your rivals' Military GLs can't rush wonders) but it goes a long way towards avoiding that moment when you have to switch a few hundred shields to a humble city improvement or unit because somebody beat you to the Wonder.

	19-01-2004 19:27									#67
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I think you are doing just fine Alex.

Just stay close enough with your offensive stacks and wait until they come charging through your front with a big stack. If they have a decent army they will break through, and your conscripts would be cannon fodder anyway. They did their job as a bait, so don't cry for them...

As soon as they break through and are in your territory, use all you got... Hopefully you'll annihilate them before they go pillaging. After some turns the AI would probably waste all their good units, and it's your turn to wreak havoc. ( if you still have those stacks) By that time, they might even be willing to give you something and sign a treaty.

OBS:
Playing against a human opponent, you might be surprised that instead of charging through your front they might gather a 20+ unit stack right where you got these cities with 2 defensive units... your weak underbelly. So when you turn the fast offensive to chase them out, they might have taken some cities already... and use scorched earth tactics as they are heading back home.

	19-01-2004 19:35									#68
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Hmmm, if building defensive units is the No. 1 n00b mistake, how did I manage to win about 50 PTW games at Monarch with defensive units comprising most of my military?

C3C, I grant, is another matter. Defensive, trading strategies have been destroyed by the new resource rules, so it's early offense or die. In this context I'd say that offensive units are now a higher priority.

	19-01-2004 19:38									#69
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About this frontline of yours:
You could also use elastic defence, which means pulling these conscripts back where the enemy is advancing. That might save some of them from being destroyed, and you could use them to occupy terrain and positioning behind rivers in your territory and keep pillagers at bay... It's a typical newbie mistake to let pillagers cut off resources without a fight.

	19-01-2004 19:50									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Cort Haus Hmmm, if building defensive units is the No. 1 n00b mistake, how did I manage to win about 50 PTW games at Monarch with defensive units comprising most of my military?.

IMHO it's not a mistake... but not building offensive units is a mistake. Probably what he meant? When attacked by someone, you will of course not win the war by only having units with attack value of 1. We use different types of strategies, so it's not neccessarly true just because some bloke on the forum says so.

I just played a game where I built the Knight Templar and got lots of crusaders. They are slow, but they are good. I needed lots of musketeers to take the hits when I walked into to enemy territory to pillage and siege cities.

	19-01-2004 20:40									#71
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Hey, isn't it time to make a consolidated list of items mentioned?

== PF

	19-01-2004 21:07									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Footballgod128 im not that good, i usually play monarch and im getting alot better thanks to a few peeps on here, thanks guys, you know who you are, im out rexing the AI like crazy now, or, i at least like to think so, but, i got awhile to go still.... i usually put about 3 or 4 defensive units in my border cities and then one in all the others, maybe an extra in my capitol, and then build alot of horseman, i prefer them cause of the fast movement and retreat ability, if i dont have them or iron, i TRY with archers.... i dont like artillary that much till i get to bombers, ill use them to bomb and get rid of thier luxuries and what not, these my not be good strategys, but, they usually work on monarch, can anyone tell me a usefull strategy for artillary as early as catapult, i wouldnt mind using them, im guessing the are best used with archers and spearmen for defense maybe...?

I will address some of these

not that I am that great, but I do know a few things

you don't need that many defensive units except if it is a stack which you are going to use to take out enemy cities

I generally, in the renaisance era, put one troop in each city, but that is just because of force of habit, and because you can only move 3 squares on roads

once railroads are in play, I generally just guard the coasts and boarders

for artillery, early artillery are crucial

I make stacks that go against enemy cities, these stacks usually contain a couple of defenders, a larger number of attacking infanty, a few mobile units, and a lot of artillery

I just go straight for their cities, I hit them with the artillery until their defenders are all hurt, than I hit them with my attacking infantry

an example (early) stack would be
3 spearmen
5 swordsmen
2 horsemen
5 catulpults

yuo have very few losses with this sort of thing

Jon Miller

	19-01-2004 21:21									#73
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as far as tech goes

I generally start with alphabet

pick up writing next, than philosophy

put that ectra tech into code of laws if I can choose to

than learn either republic (if I have decent research) or literacy and than republic (if I don't)

I think that an early republic move is important

I know that I irrigate to much, but like putting improvements in every city, it is the perfectionist bulider in me

Jon Miller

	19-01-2004 23:28									#74
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My biggest mistake (still) is not exploring and getting contact quick enough. I tend to get bogged-down in trying to defeat my nearest neighbors without knowing who's on the other side of them. By the time I do find the other civs, I'm usually behind on techs.

Since Map/Communication trading has been moved back, the importance of making contact is paramount.

Steven

	19-01-2004 23:29									#75
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When I have empty cities, the AI makes a bee-line for them. No way am I not gonna build defenders. I have at least two mech. inf in every city in my empire, except for some of the newly conquered ones (the Inca really should have deigned to talk to me).

	19-01-2004 23:38									#76
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good reconaissance/exploration makes the difference between good player and bad player IMO.

some bad players actually do play well, but theyre either too afraid to make the aggression and turtle up or blindly attack in one direction without checking all the angles. This allows the opponent to seriously take big advantage if he's a smart player that gathers intel about you.

	20-01-2004 00:59									#77
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quote: When I have empty cities, the AI makes a bee-line for them.

That's a perfect reason to leave a city "undefended".
When you know precisely where an enemy will strike and from which direction, you won't need a defender _in_ the city because they'll never make it there.

Two defenders in every city means you have no idea where they AI will strike. One or two "bait" towns makes defense a lot easier, and allows you to defend with fast-mover attackers instead of fortify-and-hope-they-don't-pillage defenders. It's not necessarily the "best" strategy, but under a representative government, your garrisons give you no contentment bonus, so if you can get by without them, especially in your interior if you are big enough to have an interior and an exterior, save yourself a bit of upkeep while making your enemy more predictable/manipulable.

That's just me, but I tend to keep a lean standing army, so if I don't _need_ a unit, I don't keep it. That means I have more fast-mover attackers and as few garrisons as I can feasibly get away with.

Under MP, this would be suicide, but in SP, it's free money.

(Edit: And yes, this is just my opinion, and more geared to a larger, later game empire. Early game, I like the peace of mind of having "troops" in every city, but lately it's more often swords and archers than spears, since I can shift them to the offensive or track down pesky pillagers without diverting my offensive force. Gah! I rambled! Anyway, it's just opinion. If your strat works for you, more power to ya. If it doesn't, give someone else's a try.)

	20-01-2004 04:11									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller I just go straight for their cities, I hit them with the artillery until their defenders are all hurt, than I hit them with my attacking infantry Jon Miller

That's what I do too artillery softening up is very important.

	20-01-2004 09:10									#79
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My biggest n00b mistake was a pathological fear of the lux slider. I played like the AI - using entertainers or extra troops or rushing collosea throughout my whole empire just to avoid 10 or 20% "lost" gold/research.

Now I have discovered the lux slider. And probably not coincidentally, am now becoming competitive on Emperor level, which I never was before.

EDIT: Also, the hangover of wanting to keep a couple of defensive units in every (even far interior) city, despite this being counterproductive with representative governments and railways.

Last edited by geniemalin on 20-01-2004 at 09:25

	20-01-2004 10:43									#80
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I'm guilty of over-defending my cities... hmm, and building too many improvements, for that matter. I guess sometimes it just doesn't feel right to leave out things that I think should be important, even when they're not. *sigh*

zero: I believe it's "Rock over London, rock on Chicago." W.W. will be missed...

	20-01-2004 20:36									#81
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 Big D what the heck are you doing back at poly?

Well this dang game just wouldn't let me leave. I took a vacation with CM but now I'm back.

	20-01-2004 21:34									#82
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about the lux slider. How does it help you so much? I leave it at 10% but if you raise it any higher you cant research techs competitvly! Unless I am missing somfin.

	20-01-2004 21:44									#83
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Need to remember to use that lux slider. WW is killing me, despite police stations and Universal Suffrage.

	21-01-2004 00:16									#84
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quote: Originally posted by techbota about the lux slider. How does it help you so much? I leave it at 10% but if you raise it any higher you cant research techs competitvly! Unless I am missing somfin.

One is it can be used to put a citizen back to work that otherwise
would have to be an entertainer.

Another is it can be used to push cities into WLTKD and boost production.

I would not set to a given level, just for the fun of it. IOW you want to see what the value is and what you get for the level set.
10% may be good or it may be useless. Do any citizens actually change or not?

	21-01-2004 19:09									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Scriblerus Being one or two turns from finishing research on a Tech, and not checking if you can still hit it in the same number of turns by rebalancing your sliders in favour of more tax (could easily be 50 to 100 gold over a couple of turns in mid-game with a large empire). Similarly, not checking on the city screen to see if you need all those shields to hit your next build in one or two turns, or could reallocate some of the pop to produce more trade/food, or as specialists for a turn or two.

IMO those are flaws in the game engine. Yes, and I do use them to my advantage.