15-01-2004 06:43									#1
	Map trading too late; explorer still late too. Put an end to popups!

These are just opinions okay. From limited play I think map trading has been pushed back too far and actually hurts the AI more than was the case with the intial placement. With the human able to greatly outpace the AI in exploration we can really get a leg up and keep it much longer now.

As for the explorer, now that Firaxis is making adjustments why can't we see a change here to bring the unit into play.

And I will throw in a free one. Don't you think that the new early naval units should be able to hold scouts so that expansionist civs get a little extra zip. How hard can it be to tweak the AI to use this?

	15-01-2004 08:21									#2
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I would tend to agree with your assesment. I am not real clear on the thinking Firaxis had on the curragh. I have read some reasonable thoughts on it.

	15-01-2004 10:20									#3
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I don't really mind about the map trading. Forces you to explore more by yourself or risk being left behind.

I don't recall ever building an explorer. As far as I'm concerned they can be removed completely. They come way too late and are underpowered anyway.

	15-01-2004 10:35									#4
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Perhaps if Explorers came much closer to the time of MapMaking, as in Civ2..... They could be like the AU suggested Chasqui (ATAR scouts) for regular civs. By the end of the Ancient Age you no longer get techs from huts, and most of them would have been popped, so the Chasqui would no longer be much of an advantage to the Inca.

	15-01-2004 14:53									#5
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I agree with jt on the map trading issue. Navigation is too late. The human player does (or should do) scout alot more than the computer. This will lead to the computer being left far behind. I think this is part of the reason why i'm doing so well in my current game.

The explorer I have no idea about. I've never actually used it.

	15-01-2004 21:08									#6
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All 3 sound reasonable, though the curragh buff should take place alongside an increase in the chance of sinking in sea and ocean.

	15-01-2004 21:32									#7
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Agree with map exchanges being too late to be worthwhile. Not sure why they changed it.

The Explorer otoh, has one very powerful use. Stack with a couple Infantry on mountains and pillage deep into the AI's land. Explorers can move, pillage and move back all in one turn. Concentrate on slow replacements like mined hills and mountains. The AI generally refuses to attack Infantry in mountains unless it has tanks.

	15-01-2004 22:16									#8
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I built an Explorer once--just once.

However, the Spanish Conquistador Explorer Unit is pretty fun and has its uses.

I think the Curragh is just a seaborn Scout unit. Explore the map and gain contacts. The human can generally use it effectively. I don't think I've ever seen an AI Curragh sailing around my coast in any game so far. Perhaps if it were modded to accept a unit, AI's would demand that it leave their terretory more vehemently. I generally get told to leave, but they seem fairly patient about it.

It doesn't make much sense that a civ can make a map, but apparently can't make copies of it to pass along to others. Perhaps they should rename the tech to 'Maps Making' and re-allow trading. (I think this was mentioned, somewhat tounge-in-cheek, in another post here somewhere)

With MM nerfed (a bit) the Curragh becomes more useful--if only the AI would use it.

Edit: spelling /edit

Steven

	15-01-2004 22:27									#9
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What if the Explorer was ... more?
A combo Scout+Worker+Settler that cost 2-3 pop points?

You could send him off to distant isle, he could find a good place to settler, road any local resource, and then form a town.

Of course, if you play pangea, that's still not that great, but for 'pelago and continents it might have its uses.

And yeah, I don't think I've ever built one either.

	16-01-2004 03:52									#10
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Navigation for map trading is totally fine. It helps keep the interest of exploring important for a longer period of time.

Explorers on the other hand.... they definitely come too late.

	16-01-2004 05:21									#11
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Explorers are near useless. If they were stealth units, or slavers, or ANYTHING, they'd have some usefullness.

	16-01-2004 05:34									#12
	Remove this text

Explorers?


anyway, i think your own minimap should NOT work until you discover map making. Not really game affecting, but it would show that your not able to make maps yet, thus you can't pass it on to others.

	16-01-2004 17:56									#13
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quote: Originally posted by =DrJambo= Navigation for map trading is totally fine. It helps keep the interest of exploring important for a longer period of time. Explorers on the other hand.... they definitely come too late.

I love the fact that the entire map isn't uncovered in the BC's. It gives the game a better feel in my opinion. Of course, I had modded map trading to Navigation prior to C3C, so I keep forgetting it's "new" to a lot of people.

As for explorers....... I think I've built one or two since Civ3 came out.