16-01-2004 01:16									#1
	Ideas on a Later Cold War Scenario Get a bigger avatar today!

I think a scenario covering the latter part of the Cold War (say from the end of the Vietnam War to the Fall of the Berlin Wall) on a global scale might be a neat idea. I'm not sure, though, how to arrange the players (or even nations within the players), though I think Khomeini should be one of the leaders. I think a giga-world map would be best, but can anyone suggest a good one. Also, how should I handle units? Any suggestions from anyone interested?

	16-01-2004 05:23									#2
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Civilization Suggestions:
NATO
Warsaw Pact
Chinese
Eastern Bloc (e.g. Cuba, Angola, Egypt)
Western Bloc (e.g. Australia, Pakistan)
India
Neutrals

	16-01-2004 05:57									#3
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This might be a hard scenario. On the one hand, you saw a lot of conflicts, however, these were mostly to bring a country from one side to another, not to sway neutrals. This could be hard to simulate, as, how do you do that with only 7 civs?

	16-01-2004 08:28									#4
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I was thinking of a more political scenario, indeed involving annexing countries between an 'Eastern Allies' and a 'Western Allies' player, with separate NATO and Warsaw Pact players in unbreakable alliances with their respective 'Allies' in a heavily fortified cease-fire centered in Central Europe, though with the potential for a conflagation (even a nuclear one). our_man's suggestion answers my question for the other three players nicely, though it would be less enjoyable to play one of them. Does anyone have any ideas on a good gigaworld map (I've come across links to several, which is the best) or any other ideas or potential problems.

	16-01-2004 23:49									#5
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I suggest you to check my iron curtain scenario

Please, follow this link:
http://cdgroup.org/forums/tbs/civ2/viewtopic.php?t=335

	17-01-2004 00:43									#6
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My suggestion:

NATO
WARPAC
Arabs
China
Neutral
USA
West Minor (ARVN, S Korea)
East Minor (NVA, VC, Cuba)

	17-01-2004 02:42									#7
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My suggestions, first, start in 1979 (you get the revolution in Iran, invasion of Afghanistan, the Sandinistas take over Nicaragua, Vietnam invades cambodia, after the peace between Egypt and Israel)

NATO + allies (Japan, SK, Israel, Australia)
WARSAW PACT
China & allies (Burma, Cambodia, Albania, Pakistan perhaps Iraq?)-basically, non-democratic regimes that are not seen as part of the western block but are anti-soviet.
non-alliegned (India, Egypt, Brazil, NZ, Yugoslavia, swaths of Latin America, Africa and Asia)-large but spread out.
pro-soviet (Vietnam, Cuba, Nicaragua, Angola, North yemen, Ethiopia, Syria)
pro-western (Saudi Arabia & Gulf states, South Africa, Chile, Honduras, Guatemala)
Independents (states that are active but not any one side- either Iran or Iraq, preferably Iran. Perhpas switch Nicaragua there as well.
B; Neutrals anyone left- used for various insurgent groups that can come up as events.


The fact is that the map is pretty complex, and thus spreading people out by lining up some non-conventional groupings helps.

On techs, you can show the devide of techs and weapon system by having such techs as "soviet weapons level 1,2,3"Western weapons level 1,2,3""Chinese weapons" and so forth. So, for example, the non-alligened states can own both T55's and M-60's, since they buy form both, but they can't own T-80's nor Leopard 2's until they get the tech. Soviet allies get only soviet weapons, western only western wepaons, and low levels the poorer they are"

Make sure complex weapon systems are very expensive to make, and be frugal with industry to keep the number of big ticket units low. You can make infantry and guerrilas cheap though. Maybe you can change the space race in some way so that you can win by "winning the cold war" type of peacefull end, as to possibly avoid nuclear war. nukes for anyone but China, WARSAW and NATO hsould be units they might have but can;t make. (this applies to India, South Africa, Israel, Pakistan)

	17-01-2004 03:20									#8
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This all sounds good, and I've even found a good gigaworld map here on Apolyton (though it seems somewhat distended). Anyone know where a good set of Cold War-era units could be found (preferably with the model name in the corner where it won't show up in the game) and any ideas for terrain resources and trade commodities in a Cold War world (making a killing off mining silk and wine and trading hides and beads in this scen seems silly).

	17-01-2004 04:11									#9
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I've more or less decided to go with GePap's ideas for faction division, although I've decided to use Pap1723's Gigaworld map from '2194 Days of War,' which brings me to a request for a good more Atomic Age 'settled' terrain graphic where his 'defended' terrain was (quite thick in the 'civilized' world, actually).

	17-01-2004 05:13									#10
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Actually, can the 'settled' terrain request; I've ultimately gone back to the Apolyton Gigaworld map (its a bit more manageable if somewhat oddly shaped). I'm still interested in ideas for units, terrain resources, and trade commodities, though, as well as more detailed ideas on how to work the tech tree.

	17-01-2004 08:10									#11
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Patine, have you checked my scenario?
I strongly suggest you to take a look. it could work as a good model for your future scenario

	17-01-2004 10:59									#12
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@academia

I did look at your scenario, and I have a similar (though still different) scenario in mind. It looks well done and thought out. By the way, do you mind if I borrrow some of the graphics (namely that cool modern city style and some of the units), as I'm having a hard time finding good Atomic Age units that actually tell you what model they are (I can't tell on a glance). You're right, it's a great model to work from. Thanx a lot.

	17-01-2004 11:05									#13
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Great.
Yep, feel free to use anything you want
That´s why I want you to check the scenario. it could be useful

Good luck

	17-01-2004 12:45									#14
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Thanx a lot, academia. This will make things a heck of a lot more manageable.

	30-01-2004 15:28									#15
	Re: Ideas on a Later Cold War Scenario Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The problem with scenarios covering the entire world is to figure out how to include the myriad of neutral and non-alligned civs.

My advice is to keep things as simple as possible: don't even bother including neutral and genuinely non-alligned civs on the map. Lump like-minded alliances together (ie, instead of having a NATO civ and a US civ, lump them, along with Australia, Japan, South Korea, Thailand, etc, into a single 'Free World' civ).

quote: Also, how should I handle units?

I'd recomend that you use the method that Andrew Livings used so well in his classic 'Crisis of the New World Order' civ: maximise variety by using generic units (ie, modern tank, nuclear sub, modern jet, etc) and give each civ a few unique units to add some 'chrome'.

quote: Originally posted by Patine I'm not sure, though, how to arrange the players (or even nations within the players), though I think Khomeini should be one of the leaders.

Aside from funding the resistance in Lebanon. Khomeini's government had virtually no influence outside Iran's borders. Nasser was the last leader of the Arab world to enjoy any kind of genuine influence or popularity (not to mention that Iran isn't an Arab country).

	30-01-2004 22:07									#16
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Case, you do have some good advice. Please check out my Late Cold War version 0.5 scenario under the thread 'Playtesters Wanted for the Cold War,' and see what you think. I didn't do all of the above, but I think I came up with some good ideas too.