Apolyton Archive  |  Preserved copy of the Apolyton Civilization Site and its forums as they stood in September 2005. Read-only; nothing here can be posted to or replied to.  |  Forum index |  About this archive |  The 1998–2001 UBB forums
Today on Apolyton WARDELL INTERVIEW PROMO A.C.S. HISTORY CHAPTER 4 GET CIV4 /w FREE PLUS! A.C.S. PHOTO GALLERY GET A.O.M. V1.1
Apolyton Civilization Forums
main| civ2| civ3| civ4| smac| ctp2| ron| moo3| galciv| galciv2| alt| about|
ApolytonPLUS | register | search | faq | new posts | pm (-/-) | upload | members
hall of fame new! | civgroups | civgroups news | interviews | the column | radio | chat | directory | news | store | PLUS
Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Civilization III > Civ3-Apolyton University > AU mod: The Keshik
Show a Printable Version | Email This Page to Someone! | Receive updates to this thread | Report this to Apolyton news!
CivGroups
Apolyton University (75): Not a Member - Join

bottom of page
  
Author
Thread    < Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
alexman is offline alexman
Emperor
Hunt Valley, MD
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 16-01-2004 22:41 Visit alexman's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#1 Report this post to a moderator
AU mod: The Keshik Inflate your Upload Space

The problem

The Knight the first fast-moving offensive unit that does not require defensive support. It's appeal is that is can move into enemy territory and attack without the fear of getting slaughtered in a counterattack, and without having to wait for slow defenders to catch up.

The Mongol UU is a Knight replacement with a reduced defense and cost. That means that Keshiks can't attack as effectively without defensive support, so they have to advance more slowly. Not only is this unfair to the Mongols, it's also historically inaccurate.

Consider a vet Knight in enemy plains, attacked by a vet Medieval Infantry. The attacker will win 60% of the time, which results in an expected shield loss of 42.3. Now consider a Keshik in the same situation. The Medieval Infantry wins 80% of the time, which is an expected shield loss of 47.5. Surely a UU should give the Mongols a better deal than that!

Possible Solution:

Give the Keshik zero-range bombardment of 2.

That means that it has a 50% chance of removing a hit point from an attacking Medieval Infantry, which improves its overall chance of defending from 20% to about 30%. That's an expected shield loss of 42.7, almost identical to that of a Knight in that situation!

A nice element of flavor from this change is that the zero-range bombard is an ability given to Archer-type units in stock C3C, and the Keshik is actually a mounted Archer, according the unit graphics!

So what do you think about the Keshik? Does it need some help, or are the Mongols doing fine as they are now? any other ideas?

Last edited by alexman on 16-01-2004 at 22:52

ducki is offline ducki
King

Sep 2002
time: 23:33
  Old Post 16-01-2004 22:49
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#2 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

What a stellar idea! If that one doesn't get support, I suggest dropping the cost further to make the expected shield loss equal or less than the knight.
They were called the Mongol Horde - there should be a lot of them and cheaper = more, IMO.

But the 0-range bombard is inspired and would be my first choice.

donZappo is offline donZappo
Warlord

Sep 2002
time: 00:33
  Old Post 16-01-2004 23:31
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#3 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

I like this idea as well! Sounds like a good, creative solution to the problem. How does the estimated shield loss compare to it having a bombardment value of 3?

-donZappo

lockstep is offline lockstep
King
Vienna, Austria
Aug 2001
time: 06:33
  Old Post 16-01-2004 23:34
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#4 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

quote:
Originally posted by ducki
What a stellar idea!


Actually, player1 suggested this two months ago:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=101611

And I really like it.

Stuie is offline Stuie

King
Have a beer!
Sep 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 17-01-2004 01:04 Visit Stuie<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/inmate-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#5 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

Excellent idea (and I'm glad lockstep found player1's thread so I wouldn't have to go looking for it...).

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 17-01-2004 01:47
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#6 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

Dominae is offline Dominae
Emperor

Jan 2002
time: 00:33
  Old Post 17-01-2004 05:55
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#7 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I like the zero-range bombard idea, too.

The topic of Knight replacement UUs gets me thinking about Ansar Warriors. Anyone else think that what is basically a cheap Rider is a little too powerful?


Dominae

nbarclay is offline nbarclay
Emperor
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 17-01-2004 06:19
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#8 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Count me as another person who likes the idea of zero-range bombard for Keshiks.

Regarding Ansars, I don't want to get in a game of "Let's tone down all the best UUs," and I don't view the Ansar as so much better than other first-tier UUs that we need to single it out. The cost difference between Ansars and Riders isn't huge; Arabia isn't Militaristic and so gets fewer promotions (and hence leaders) than China; and the Ansar is more vulnerable than the Rider on the admittedly relatively rare occasions when it is subject to counterattack.

Nathan

alexman is offline alexman
Emperor
Hunt Valley, MD
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 19-01-2004 19:22 Visit alexman's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#9 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Under consideration:

Yes/No: Give Keshiks a zero-range bombard strength of 2.

Voting on Friday.

MrWhereItsAt is offline MrWhereItsAt
Emperor
New Year's Resolution: 2005 is the year of Where It's At - come get some.
Nov 2001
time: 17:33
  Old Post 21-01-2004 16:38
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#10 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

How about the cheaper shield cost idea as well? As a non-panel member I certainly take ducki's point about the 'horde' well.

alexman is offline alexman
Emperor
Hunt Valley, MD
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 21-01-2004 16:44 Visit alexman's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#11 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

We will revisit the cheaper cost proposal after the first version of the mod has been released. It's easier to decide on the cost of the unit after we have decided whether or not it will have zero-range bombard.

MrWhereItsAt is offline MrWhereItsAt
Emperor
New Year's Resolution: 2005 is the year of Where It's At - come get some.
Nov 2001
time: 17:33
  Old Post 21-01-2004 16:46
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#12 Report this post to a moderator
Enter the AD-FREE zone

Gotcha.

How come you're always there, just as I post, ready to reply?

Dominae is offline Dominae
Emperor

Jan 2002
time: 00:33
  Old Post 21-01-2004 20:53
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#13 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote:
Originally posted by alexman
Yes/No: Give Keshiks a zero-range bombard strength of 2.


Yes!

alexman is offline alexman
Emperor
Hunt Valley, MD
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 23-01-2004 02:58 Visit alexman's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#14 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Yes

lockstep is offline lockstep
King
Vienna, Austria
Aug 2001
time: 06:33
  Old Post 23-01-2004 03:28
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#15 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

YES.

ZargonX is offline ZargonX
Emperor
Space
Sep 2002
time: 00:33
  Old Post 23-01-2004 03:55
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#16 Report this post to a moderator
Enter the AD-FREE zone

Yes

Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:33
  Old Post 23-01-2004 06:21
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#17 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Yes, very cool.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 23-01-2004 08:46
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#18 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

It almost seems to me that you're going a little overboard with zero-range bombard.

Stuie is offline Stuie

King
Have a beer!
Sep 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 23-01-2004 18:03 Visit Stuie<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/inmate-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#19 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

quote:
Originally posted by alexman
Yes/No: Give Keshiks a zero-range bombard strength of 2.


YES.

  < Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:33.
Apolyton Time is 00:33.
    top of page
Rate This Thread:
Forum Jump:
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 




Contact Us - Apolyton Civilization Site - Support Us!

Building a better Apolyton through better information. Click here and take our poll!
Non-US visitors, click here!

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.0.3
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

Page generated in 0.0495 seconds (90.28% PHP - 9.72% MySQL) with 36 queries
Page Loading Time:

Support Apolyton: Amazon USA | Amazon UK | Amazon DE | Amazon FR |
Support Apolyton and get FREE PLUS, Buy from Chips&Bits: Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition | Call to Power 2 | Civilization: The Boardgame | GURPS/ Alpha Centauri | Alpha Centauri | Civilization IV | Civilization III: Complete |


Front Page | Civilization IV | Civilization III | Civilization II | Call to Power II | Alpha Centauri | Master of Orion III
Rise of Nations | Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations II | Misc
Alt.Civs | Civ I | C:CtP I | About | News | Directory | Apolyton Store | Forums | Chat | Columns | Interviews | Newsletter
Scenario League | CSC | Clash of Civs | Spanish Site | CtP Maps | Cradle of Civ | WesW's Ctp1/2 Site | Civ3 Haven

apolyton.net | apolyton.com | civilization2.net | civilization3.net | civilization4.net | civilizationiv.info | calltopower.net | galciv.net | galciv2.net | moo3.net