17-01-2004 05:36									#1
	Expansionist on Archpelago Maps? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Anyone like this trait on island maps? The upside is that you can possibly let huts stay undisturbed until later then pop them for advanced techs. This is hard on pangea is you have a bunch of expansionist civ scouts runnning around popping huts like crazy. You basically have to pop them or lose them.

On Pangea I notice that when I play (always with max civs) the other expansionist civs pop so many huts that I am lucky to pop 5 or 6 huts max each game even on pangea.

So I don't know why most like pangea for Expansionist, uness you specifically play huge maps or with less than max civs.

	17-01-2004 06:08									#2
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First you won't pop any advance techs, if you are talking about those in the later ages. If you mean late ancient techs, why wait?

I barely like exp trait at all, but surely I want more land. Meating civs is another use of pangea exp civ. You also will get better results from huts.

	17-01-2004 06:11									#3
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I wasn't for sure about the techs. I don't play this trait hardly ever..thought you might be able to pop middle age tech, etc. Just found out only ancient techs.

	17-01-2004 07:25									#4
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Scouts are still good for dropping off on AI Islands and looking around. Otherwise you might not see what the AI has until late Middle Ages... how else are you going to take advantage of them properly before then?

Pottery is a decent Archipelago tech to have too. It's Granaries from the start, and one tech closer to Map Making. Paired with an Alphabet trait you have the best chance to settle all the free islands.

Finally, your free Scout will have you informed about your starting position as quickly as possible. Archipelago starts (especially the size of your landmass) vary wildly, moreso than other settings. Sometimes your island is big enough that you want to rex, and sometimes you just want to go OCC until Map Making. The earlier you know which direction to head, the better.

I wouldn't say it's one of the top Archipelago traits (Seafaring and Commercial are the obvious ones), but it's not as bad as it's made out to be.

	17-01-2004 15:12									#5
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If your on an island all by yourself, what would be the point of waiting to pop huts with your scouts? The island is yours and the huts are yours. Pop'em with a warrior or spear at your lesisure.

OTOH, Aeson makes a good point about scouting around newly discovered AI civs. This trick of meeting an AI and sending a scout to run around looking is great when you remember that you can no longer trade maps until what? Printing press or Navagation? You map will be much more valuable with this.

	17-01-2004 16:50									#6
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There is a benefit techwise if you go for Philosophy and the free tech. I am finding that on most continents starts on emperor I can beeline Philosophy first even without Alphabet. If you also have Pottery from being expansionist then you can take Map Making as your free tech even if you got no techs from huts.

If you haven't found all the other AI's yet with curraghs you can with galleys and you will have several relatively advanced techs to trade for the early ones you missed.

	18-01-2004 15:11									#7
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One positive thing with beeing exp on an island is that you will quickly know that you are on an island so that you can adept your strategy for a new situation...

	19-01-2004 15:39									#8
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Try once militaristic and seafaring (as the Vikings). Militaristic gives you cheap harbors (you will live or die by your warfleet) and barracks (get some more luxuries and resources).
Seafaring is a 'must' on archipelago.
As for expansionist, I'm not that sure.
Commercial is also very powerful. In most of my games, the Dutch are real KAIs.

	19-01-2004 15:57									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Isn't there a greater chance of getting Barbs if you pop a hut with a military unit rather than a scout?

	12-02-2004 19:45									#10
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Thriller: Not for expansionist.

But 90% or so of all huts on Deity contain barbarians if you aren't expansionist. With expansionist no huts contain barbarians.

You get fewer (any?) barbarians if you pop huts only with town radiuses.

All those goody huts on other islands look tempting, but by the time you have a galley there carrying a scout the ancient age is almost over, and you are SoL.

	12-02-2004 20:17									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Mountain Sage Try once militaristic and seafaring (as the Vikings). Militaristic gives you cheap harbors (you will live or die by your warfleet) and barracks (get some more luxuries and resources). Seafaring is a 'must' on archipelago. As for expansionist, I'm not that sure. Commercial is also very powerful. In most of my games, the Dutch are real KAIs.

but the dutch are not commercial

	13-02-2004 04:12									#12
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The dutch are agricultural. Same trait I am most of the time when I manage to become "killer".

After pondering this some more, yes, expansionist is still decent on archipelagos. Because unless you go for max water it's still 50/50 if it actually will be an archipelago or basically a continent map. This happens so often I think something is broken. Even on standard maps, I have sympathy if the map generator gets in trouble on smaller maps. (Though why it so often makes several large islands to go with pangaea is also beyond me. Sometimes even starting someone off on them.)

Uh, that turned into a small rant. Oh well, it's just the RNG's personal hatred of me I guess.

	14-02-2004 02:04									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Mountain Sage Seafaring is a 'must' on archipelago.

I think it makes the game too easy to play that way. The AI doesnt have a clue how to act with naval exploration and invasion.

I would only play Seafaring on continents/pangaea.


Right now I'm trying to play civs with worse possible combinations, like Hittites (Comm, Exp).

	15-02-2004 03:27									#14
	Inflate your Upload Space

the less huts on an island sure can make the exp trait seem weak for achipelago, although the chances of getting a free settler really early on in the game outweighs that disadvantage imo. A free city by 3000BC is worth big i think. a player can then have 1 city for settlers and the other for galleys and such.

and if you have the comercial trait with lots of empty islands around.. it makes for a nice big island empire waiting to be built