12-02-2004 05:33									#31
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Yes, that would be stretching it. I feel like we should say to Vox "Won't Lego give you Physics soon, or is it your job to get it for them?" {edit : well, not quite so directly }

	12-02-2004 06:08									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Cort Haus Yes, that would be stretching it. I feel like we should say to Vox "Won't Lego give you Physics soon, or is it your job to get it for them?" {edit : well, not quite so directly }

yeah. Does lego think we're dumb enough to give it to vox and not attach an NDA? Or is it something else. It will be interesting after this is all over to see exactly what the relationship between those two civs is.

	12-02-2004 06:13									#33
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Maybe it's the devaluation Lego want.

	12-02-2004 06:26									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Cort Haus Maybe it's the devaluation Lego want.

Possibly, which would mean they are really cranking up spending in other areas...

I guess they figured that by researching econ and nav when no one else would, they could catch physics etc on the backswing and dovetail right into the industrial era. Not particularly how I would do it, as they were in the clear drivers seat, but oh well.

	12-02-2004 20:42									#35
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If I were Lego, I might do this:

Raise a lot of cash prior to completion of Adam Smiths', blowing a lot of it on libraries and universities (to the extent I don't have those in every city already).

Complete Smith's, triggering GA. Now crank up research.

-Arrian

	12-02-2004 20:43									#36
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I wonder, do you think Lego really understands how fast GS can research? Do they see the danger?

Maybe they do, but maybe they don't.

-Arrian

	12-02-2004 20:56									#37
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If they can count to four, they should see how fast we've been going, because that is the average number of turns it's taken us to research techs since Invention. In most cases their own diplo screen will tell them how long it took us to research them. Beaker counting would tell them how long Physics took.

If they see our city sizes, and our culture graph, and our disband-spike on the power graph, they ought to be able to put two and two together and get ... four.

btw - I had a quick look at the save. Magellans is being built in Jackson. That must have been their Palace, so Magellan next turn? GA? Probably better than GoW having it.

	12-02-2004 21:02									#38
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If it is GA next turn, them marvellous. They'll get rich, but waste 12 turns (more with Mil Trad) on MA tech. They should know better - I'd be surprised.

If it's not next turn, why take it out of hiding now? Unless it was a bank prebuild like ours, and Smith/Sistine is hiding elsewhere behind a Palace.

Maybe GS-GoW-ND should share investigation costs and check it out - maybe 55-60g each. We'd see some map too.

	12-02-2004 21:14									#39
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

It will be odd if its not built next turn. What is their angle then? set up another wonder prebuild?

Jackson-magellan
legopolis-sistine (aka smith aka whatever)
mysterious 3rd city with new palace prebuild (ToE?)

Magellan's is much much more important for ND/GoW/GS than for lego, at least for us. So much sea space out there we can easily see if they are heading for us. a lot of shields to spend on a denial wonder, esp. when the sci wonders are available....

	12-02-2004 21:17									#40
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

They won't research MT, will they? That would make little sense.

Sounds like Magellan's this turn (didn't they just pass us the save?) and a GA for Lego. I'd expect Smith and the Sistine to get built during the GA (in the case of Smith, I'm still assuming the Sistine in Legopolis is a prebuild).

I'd expect them to make 4 turns/tech EASILY now, especially with Smith's. What techs do they need to get to the Ind era? Do they have Physics yet? If not, they will soon enough, since they finished Econ recently, right? They will need Magnetism and ToG for sure... what about Metallurgy, did GoW sell it to them?

4 for Mag, 4 for ToG, say 2 left on Physics? 10 turns until the Industrial Era. At which point we will be 2 turns into our Steam Power research. Vox will be given the techs they need and will get their free tech. If it's Steam or Medicine... eep. That suddenly vaults Lego ahead of us.

Let's say it's our worst nightmare: Steam Power or Medicine. So in 11 (one for the trade to/from Vox) turns, Lego has Steam, and begins Medicine (or Steam Power) research. In 15 turns, they're starting Electricity. Think they can manage that in 4? Possibly. Let's go worst-case, and say yes. Elect in 4... 19. Sci Method in 4... 23.

Even if Vox & Lego vaulting ahead speeds our own research, we would be a few turns behind, wouldn't we?

PRAY FOR NATIONALISM! I may need to go get some M&M's to appease the RNG.

-Arrian

	12-02-2004 21:22									#41
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It would REALLY suck if Lego grab the science wonders out from under us too. Ok, they probably cannot beat us to both. But Copernicus is distinctly possible. They have Astronomy, and have for quite a while.

-Arrian

	12-02-2004 21:40									#42
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yes, in which cases we are hosed. royally

I think they have metallurgy and just need physics.

they will get ToE if they are in their golden age.

we need to get this alliance to hit them asap. I can't see anyother way to distract them off their course.

	12-02-2004 22:27									#43
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Arrian It would REALLY suck if Lego grab the science wonders out from under us too. Ok, they probably cannot beat us to both. But Copernicus is distinctly possible. They have Astronomy, and have for quite a while. -Arrian

We are 6 turns off Copernicus.

They cannot build Magellans next turn and beat us to Cope's. they would need two palaces.

If they had 190s on a Uni prebuild, they need another 410s in 6 turns, that's 70spt.

The only way we can lose both Sci Wonders is for someone to pull 600s from out behind a palace in the next 6 turns (before Copes). If Lego do that (and they might) then Magellan wasn't from a Palace and can only be at 200s.