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Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:33
  Old Post 18-01-2004 21:48
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Unnamed Democrat beats Bush in Polls Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
Times/CBS poll show Bush ratings down



NEW YORK, Jan. 17 (UPI) -- Democratic voters held a 2 point edge over those who would vote for President Bush if the U.S. election were held now, a CBS/New York Times poll said.

The poll published Saturday found that 45 percent of voters said they would vote for a still unspecified Democratic candidate and 43 percent would vote for President Bush.

Late last month, the president held a 49 percent to 40 percent edge. The standing now is similar to what it was in November 2003, before the capture of Saddam Hussein.

The poll was conducted among a nationwide random sample of 1022 adults, interviewed by telephone between Jan. 12 and Jan. 15.

Much of this sentiment seems already locked in place, suggesting the coming year could see a tight struggle for undecided voters: 63 percent say their mind is already made up, while 36 percent say it is too soon to say for sure.

A CBS/New York Times poll also shows the president's approval rating is down to 50 percent, matching his lowest level ever, along with the largest percentage ever, 45 percent, disapproving his performance.

I found this particularly entertaining, especially since it's from a right wing rag.

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-brea...74346-3402r.htm

He's gone.

Although I still maintain my prediction that OSAMA BIN LADEN, will be magically found around election time.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 18-01-2004 21:51
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Thankfully Unnamed Democrat isn't running.

Edan is offline Edan
Chieftain

Dec 2002
time: 00:33
  Old Post 18-01-2004 21:53
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Re: Unnamed Democrat beats Bush in Polls Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Can we put "Unnamed Democrat" on the ballot?


Or maybe one of the candidates will change their first name to Unnamed, and their second to Democrat?

Way, way to early to start touting a poll in an election year, and, anyway, they're in a statistical tie (IIRC, for polls of ~1000, MoE is +-3%)

Sava is offline Sava
King
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Mar 2001
time: 23:33
  Old Post 18-01-2004 21:54
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quote:
Way, way to early to start touting a poll in an election year, and, anyway, they're in a statistical tie (IIRC, for polls of ~1000, MoE is +-3%)
I know... I'm touting it for entertainment purposes... Bush is gone regardless of what some dopey poll says.

PLATO is offline PLATO

King
Of the occupied South
Dec 2002
time: 23:33
  Old Post 18-01-2004 21:58
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The "Unnamed Democrat" has consistently been running ahead of any "named" Democrat for over a year. The difference is that this is the first time he/she has polled ahead of Bush. Not especially interesting since the Democratic machine is in full ad mode with the Republican ad machine sitting idly by. One would expect this result.

Winston is offline Winston
King
Danmark
Mar 1999
time: 06:33
  Old Post 18-01-2004 22:00
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This poll seems highly unscientific as it apparently lacks the Unnamed Banana option.

Ming is offline Ming
Chief Minion

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Mingapulco - CST
Jan 1970
time: 23:33
  Old Post 18-01-2004 22:26 Visit Ming<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
Bush is gone regardless of what some dopey poll says.


It's too early to tell whether Bush is toast or not. If the economy continues to get strong, it's more than likely that Bush could win in a landslide since the leading Democrat right now (Dean) isn't even close to have his full party's support. So you still could be in for an unpleasent experience on election day Sava

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:33
  Old Post 18-01-2004 23:19
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quote:
So you still could be in for an unpleasent experience on election day Sava
I know... but I'm being optimistic because it makes me feel better...

plus, I'm moving to Canada if Shrub gets re-elected... I don't want to have to be around for another 4 years of ****...

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 18-01-2004 23:22
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quote:
I'm moving to Canada if Shrub gets re-elected


Promise?

You aren't going to be like Basinger and Baldwin who went back on their word after the election .

Ming is offline Ming
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Jan 1970
time: 23:33
  Old Post 18-01-2004 23:31 Visit Ming<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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What I find interesting is that none of the actual Dems can beat Bush based on the polls. The only way they come even close is if it's a Dem with no name Doesn't that say a lot about the current list of losers the Dems have

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 18-01-2004 23:42 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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It's January, Ming. People don't know much about the Democratic candidates outside of the politics junkies. Incumbents usually have a huge lead this time in the process.

Interesting poll from a NYT article:



http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/18/p...artner=USERLAND

Note the high disapproval.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 18-01-2004 23:43
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quote:
Note the high disapproval.


Yet the approval is greater than Clinton's.

Verto is offline Verto

King

Mar 2002
time: 23:33
  Old Post 18-01-2004 23:45
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Tired of ads?

quote:
Originally posted by Sava
plus, I'm moving to Canada if Shrub gets re-elected... I don't want to have to be around for another 4 years of ****...


I'm sure you could have your travel expenses fully funded through Apolyton.

Ming is offline Ming
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Jan 1970
time: 23:33
  Old Post 18-01-2004 23:46 Visit Ming<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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A high disapproval didn't stop Clinton from getting elected. Unless something weird happens... it will still come down to the economy. If it's doing good, it will be very difficult for a Dem to knock Bush off. If the economy drops again, all the Dems need is somebody who most Dems can vote for.

The Emperor Fabulous is offline The Emperor Fabulous
Warlord
Apolyton's Resident Actor-in-Training
Aug 1999
time: 00:33
  Old Post 18-01-2004 23:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
quote:
Note the high disapproval.


Yet the approval is greater than Clinton's.


When almost half of the nation disapproves of you, somehting is terribly wrong.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 18-01-2004 23:49 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
quote:
Note the high disapproval.


Yet the approval is greater than Clinton's.


Dubya is a definite polarizer. Look at how few people had no opinion...

Plus, among those with an opinion, Bush has the lowest positive feedback rate.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 18-01-2004 23:50 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Tired of ads?

quote:
Originally posted by Verto


I'm sure you could have your travel expenses fully funded through Apolyton.


Who said we'd take him?

Verto is offline Verto

King

Mar 2002
time: 23:33
  Old Post 18-01-2004 23:51
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Who said we'd take him?



Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 18-01-2004 23:55 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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quote:

Yet the approval is greater than Clinton's.


Disapproval is a more important number as it represents actual opposition to a president's policies and so tends to be relatively static, while approval ratings vary more as centrists move in and out of the "I don't know" category - which is 5% in Shrub's case in contrast to 13% in Clinton's case.

quote:
A high disapproval didn't stop Clinton from getting elected. Unless something weird happens... it will still come down to the economy. If it's doing good, it will be very difficult for a Dem to knock Bush off. If the economy drops again, all the Dems need is somebody who most Dems can vote for.


I don't know if I'd call the current economy "damn good." I agree that it'll probably come down to the economy, but in particular it'll come down to jobs. And I don't think that the economy's doing well enough to make up for job losses. Particularly in the vital steel states like Ohio and West Virginia where people are pissed that Shrub ended the same tariffs that he created.

And disapproval is still a bit higher than Clinton's.

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
Emperor
Pittsburgh, PA
Apr 1999
time: 00:33
  Old Post 19-01-2004 00:02
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Suffering from ads?

Un-named candidates often poll better then named candidates. Again, bear in mind that at this point Clinton and Reagan both had much worse poll numbers at this point in their first term, and won by decisive margins. At this point, in the '88 election year, Dukakis held a big lead over Bush, and for '02 Bush had a large lead over Gore that would eventually disappear.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 19-01-2004 00:06 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Got spare money?

Better to compare to reelection numbers.

A lot of different dynamics when neither is incumbent.

I agree that "unnamed" candidates are a bad judge, but so are named candidates until somebody is a winner in the primaries, since by then party loyalty will start to kick in.

Bush should be very worried about his high disapproval rating. He's obviously pissing a lot of people off, and if you piss people off enough they're a lot more likely to go vote than your soft supporters are.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 19-01-2004 00:07 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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A year ago I would have said Bush was a shoe-in. Not so sure any more.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 19-01-2004 00:08
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Tired of ads?

quote:
And disapproval is still a bit higher than Clinton's.


And Clinton's diapproval was a more than a bit higher than Carter's .

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 19-01-2004 00:14 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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The election occured a year after the Iranian Hostage Crisis started - and it was unresolved at the time of election. I'd bet that Carter's disapproval was quite a bit higher a few months later.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 19-01-2004 00:15
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Well his disapproval was also higher than 41's four years back... and are you saying there are certain things that can increase/reduce a disapproval rating.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 19-01-2004 00:16 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Well, no matter how much you ask we aren't going to pull your chestnuts out of the fire this time.

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 19-01-2004 00:17 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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Tends to be relatively static.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 19-01-2004 00:18
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So then, there is little point in analyzing approval/disapproval ratings this early in the year, yes?

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 19-01-2004 00:22 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
So then, there is little point in analyzing approval/disapproval ratings this early in the year, yes?


There is definitely a point to it, Imran.

It's not a crystal ball, but it certainly tells you something about the way people feel.

I was surprised to see such a high disapproval rating.

Ming is offline Ming
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Jan 1970
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  Old Post 19-01-2004 00:39 Visit Ming<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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From US News and World Report
quote:

So who's going to win the November election?
Current political punditry calls for a Bush Dean matchup, with the incumbent the victor. "Bush has a lot going for him with the economy right now," says Nigel Gault, U.S. economic research director at Global Insight. "That puts him in a similar position to Nixon and Reagan in 1972 and 1984, both of whom won overwhelming victories."

But Gault and other rely on more than the shifting political winds to make their predictions. Gault's analysis of the the 14 presidential elections since WWII found that the two key economic factors matter most in determining winners and losers. The first is the growth rate in the real per capita disposable income in the year preceding a presidential election. The second factor is the direction of the unemployment rate in the year before the election. Plugging in his firm's forecase of a 2.4 percent income growth rate in 2004 with a jobless rate of 5.7 percent gives Bush 56.7 percent of the the vote in 2004. (in 2000, the model had Al Gore winning with 51.8% of the two party vote, pretty close to Gore's actual 50.3% share)

Lower the assumptions and the margin of victory shrinks. With income growth of only 1.4 percent and a jobless rate of 6.2 percent, Bush's vote tally falls to 54.3 percent. So how could Bush lose? Combine weak GDP growth with robust productivity increases resulting in less than 1 percent income growth and an umemployment rate of 7.9%. Then Bush loses narrowly, with 49.4 percent of the vote.

Yale University Prof. Ray Fair also counts on a Bush win. He looks at a combiniation of income growth rate, inflation, and the number of quarters of rapid income growth in the first 15 quarters of a president's term. Fair sees Bush garnering 58.3 % of the two party vote.


Out of all predictive models, economic based ones are the most acurate for predicting presidential elections.
These two models, and every other one I've seen shows Bush winning easily no matter who the Dems put up. The economy has to go into the tank (and nobody, even the traditional doom sayers are predicting that) or something really weird has to happen to keep Bush from getting re-elected

 
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