19-01-2004 12:43									#1
	Opinions on my game. Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Hey all.

Opinions on my game please. Tell me what I'm doing wrong. Its a Regent game, huge map, pangaea. I'm not far from going into the industrial age.

This is the same game that I posted on here about oh about three weeks or more ago. I was only starting out in this game then.

So opinions?

Its too big for the Attachment so its been uploaded:
http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Fl...cWho/Philip.SAV

	19-01-2004 14:12									#2
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

can't DL from work.... could you post some screenies?

	19-01-2004 14:13									#3
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Sure, anything specific in mind?

	19-01-2004 14:28									#4
	Got spare money?

I'll not be able to post any till tomorrow morning sometime (NZ time this is).

	19-01-2004 14:35									#5
	Tired of ads?

Military strength compared to (enter civ here)
Trade Advisor (to see where you can pick up/dump off or who is lacking for a possible attack)
Borders

That kinda thing.

I'll be here when you do get to post (US CST this is. Ugh... third shift...)

	19-01-2004 14:58									#6
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well to be honest....it's time to move up a level. You're making it look too easy! If you're just starting out in Civ3 (unless I've misinterpreted what you said), then you'll be a champ in no-time.....although my enthusiasm should be tempered by the fact that I'm not particularly competent myself!

You're way ahead on points. Only Persia has a stronger military, which is surprising because you're don't seem to be that strong except for your Swiss Mercenaries. Your military is largely defensive.

You are at least 2 techs ahead of everyone and 5 or 6 ahead of most. You can trade for Democracy with Persia, but this will bring them closer to you on the compulsory tech tree. The only reason I would do this would be to get quicker access to Free Artistry and Shakespeare, which is a useful "city-specific" wonder to catapult you to factory/Coal plant and then US, ToE and Hoover in the early industrial age. But this is personal preference - I tend to stay in Republic the whole game.

You're building your Universities at the moment, which is what I would be doing too to help keep up your research rate and tech lead.

Once you get Military Tradition in a couple of turns (assuming you've got Saltpeter) it's time to build Cavalry and overrun Byzantine, which shouldn't be a problem....and then Spain next door. This will secure your own supply of Silk and Ivory.

After that, I think you're going to get bored, since you will be spitting out factories and should get all the wonders, and then by the time you reach tanks you'll be virtually unstoppable.

Time to move up to Monarch.

Last edited by Aqualung71 on 19-01-2004 at 15:38

	19-01-2004 15:06									#7
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

A couple more thoughts:

On city production, again it seems to me you're doing the right thing - building pop size to 12 with irrigation. After that I presume you'll switch to mining more tiles....especially since RR's are around the corner and you don't need as many irrigated tiles to grow once RR'd....to do this quickly, use your workers in "gangs" of 3 (or 6). Then again it's a balancing act, since you will soon have hospitals and will want to keep growing. Initially though, you will need more mines to get the factories, which are quite expensive.

As you move up levels the micro-management of city tiles becomes much more important, so keep a close eye on this in your next (Monarch) game. For example, look at Leiden - you've hit the pop max of 12, but you have a food excess of 4. By putting your city workers on the forest squares instead of irrigated grasslands, you can immediately increase shield production from 9 (net) to 16 and reduce the number of turns to build your Uni from 21 to 13. There's also a shielded grassland square there you haven't improved, while you've irrigated non-shields squares, so you've lost a potential shield. Remember also that for two tiles of the same terrain, always improve the river-adjacent tile first - it gets a commerce bonus.

One issue that can be personal preference - I would tend to build Cathedrals before Colosseums. The shield cost compared to content faces/culture value is more efficient. Also remember that the Sistine wonder doubles the effect of Cathedrals, though you didn't get it in this game. Colosseums for me are a "nice to have" later on when I want some more culture or need the happy faces due to war weariness. I generally switch any Colosseum build to Cathedral as soon as I get Monotheism.

I hope you find these comments useful.

Cheers!

Last edited by Aqualung71 on 19-01-2004 at 15:25

	19-01-2004 15:36									#8
	Suffering from ads?

Just noticed you've got RoP's with about 6 other Civs. I would generally avoid these unless you need to travel through a neighbour's territory in order to attack an enemy. Firstly, it gives the AI the ability to wander around your territory, which means you need to be alert as to your defensive situation due to the possibility of surprise attacks. Secondly, the AI will often wander into your territory even without an RoP, which can give you a convenient opportunity to instigate a war without setting the War Weariness clock ticking....ie "Get out of my territory" followed by a short pause during whch the AI weighs up its options, and then "x Civ declares war on us despite being 12 techs behind and having an offensive army of only 3 Longbowmen!"

Cheers!

	19-01-2004 20:22									#9
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Here's another, opposite viewpoint on ROP's:

They can be a Good Thing, especially on the higher levels. A Civ with a ROP will tend to have a higher opinion of you than one without a ROP. And AI ROP Rape, while it does happen, is really quite rare. A more relevant problem is congestion due to units entering your territory during a ROP; this can keep you from moving efficiently, or can block your workers from reaching the places they need. This only tends to be a problem when you have a central or fairly central starting location, however.

Also note that, if you are bigger than someone else and you enter a ROP, you can milk it for money if they have it, or for a discount on goods or techs.

USC

	19-01-2004 22:01									#10
	Tired of ads?

I'm taking this out of context, but still worth mentioning...

quote: I would tend to build Cathedrals before Colosseums.

I tend to go several games between Colosseum builds.
Unless you've got serious happiness problems, I have a hard time recommending Colosseums - or maybe you're going for a culture win?

As mentioned previously, most of your military is defensive - in that case, build Knights/Cavalry instead of Colosseums if happiness is not an issue - this will come in handy when you get ready to steamroll your neighbors.

On RoP: Another benefit is you can have neighbors at war on opposite sides of you, give them both an RoP but stay out of the war. Build up enough units to act as gatekeepers, preventing a Stack of Doom from wiping out one enemy while letting through enough troops on both sides to keep each AI in war mode, dragging down their economy.

Yes, there is some fear of a surprise AI attack, but if you keep them both happy enough with Per Turn deals(money, luxuries, resources, RoP, even gifts) then they will be loath to give up the benefits by attacking you.

Just my out-of-context thoughts. Nothing concrete.

	20-01-2004 00:24									#11
	Remove this text

Basically what Thriller said.

Sure, your defensive units will upgrade all the way to MechInf, but you can't attack (successfully) w/ them. Build more Offensive units--especially the ones that utilize 'smelly' Horses. That should help you Offend all your neighbors

Pay closer attention to your tile improvements.


Ah, Colosseums......

Great for ancient Gladiatorial games and retain their usefulness for modern sporting events including Monster Truck Rallys! However, my mental picture of Colosseums is much better then their actual use in the game. They're expensive to build and maintain and their happiness effect is paltry compared to other improvements. I only build them when in Democracy and my Metros are becoming antsy with War Weariness--Monster Truck shows can calm even the most vociferous war protestors (but only a few of them).

Perhaps as a prebuild for Cathederals, but my personal recomendation is to put them on the 'Don't Build' list, or at least the 'Don't Build till MUCH Later' list.

Steven

	20-01-2004 02:22									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Sounds like you are doing fine and should move up a level.

	20-01-2004 16:05									#13
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Righteo an update.

After some building up for a war I took it to the Byzantines. Man can Cavalry chew through anything. Cities were falling like flies in front of a flame thrower. Bloody wonderful unit ol' cavalry. (I usually play as a total peacemonger, only doing very quick wars, or none at all, also I usually have quit a game by now, this one is holding my attention however) So the Byzantines are on the ropes, soon to lose the two cities on the other side of that little sea and I'll have to wait around for Marines to attack there last city. So I'm gonna surround it in ships so they can't get in or out, or trade or anything. Then I'll kill them.

Currently I'm in the process of getting a main trunk line up and running with the RR' and moving all my troops to the chokepoint between the spanish and me. Yup you guessed it, the spanish are next followed by the Hittites (sp?). I'm using this game as a introduction to the art of war as such. I'm not usually a warmonger so I need the training.

Thanks for your remarks to btw. On Colossuems, I, well I build everything. It's an old habit dating back to the good old days of civII. I build every little thing that the game can let me ('cept city walls) I'll have to grow out of this habit as I advance in the difficulty levels I suppose.

Thanks again.

	20-01-2004 16:21									#14
	Support Apolyton

Yes I know what you mean.....I have confess to wanting to build everything too, but Colosseums are certainly almost last on my build list (probably before Coastal Fortress). As Steven said, really only useful as that extra boost against war weariness late in the game, when your production is so high they only take a few turns anyway.