19-01-2004 22:30									#1
	Spooky 1 - Two levels Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Hi

It is a thread dedicated to some strange thing I've noticed during my work over scenarios, especially the current one. You may remember I discovered a way to put a one city on top of another with a help of events, changeterraining in fact. Also, I've noticed, but probably not as the first one, that changeterraining doesn't really destroy units that are on the changeterrained spot. It depends on some things, and I surmise which ones, but am no sure and too lazy to check. Anyway, both the changeterrained units and changeterrained cities appear only if another unit moves on their place. The city that is hidden behind another one can not be conquered, or so I thought. I am not sure right now, though. My earlier experience with changeterrained units covered either units with 0-movement, or units on an ocean square (remember in Komnenai, when You could transport Norman fortresses no matter who You were). There was a sign of what I experienced recently, but I did not take enough notice of it.

OK. Let's move to the main topic.

I've been experimenting with events, and learned some stuff. I forget it every time I finish a scenario, nevermind. Thing You have to know is that sometimes, an enemy unit can be created in a hostile city by events. Then, unless You build something in it, it acts as a hostile city to You.

But now, something stranger happened. I spoilt one of my events, and Muslim units appear in one Persian city. But are they? If You're not Muslims, and You have this place visible on your map, You see just a strange thing, kind of a pattern of some unit's move, but the closest part of the map moves along with it. If You reveal Muslim map, You don't see the units, but the terrain where they've moved is visible, though its borders have a strange pattern (I think it is connected to the moving of the map). If You are Muslims, these units indeed appear and leave a strange pattern of scattered map, but no cities are visible, moreover, the units are visible and the map is scattered only if the units are active.

Those units are somekind "under" the terrain, just as changeterrained cities and units. They can move freely,
under foreign cities and units, though not under ocean.
But they DO interact with units that remain on the "up" level. They simply suck them into the "down" level. These units "disappear" on our levels. If the unit is fortified, it will appear only through city view, or when another units will step on it. If it's active, You can simply move it off the field it's covered with, but at the start, at the point it is hidden, it will not be visible.

When it comes to the cities, they are not transported down by move under them, but their units are. If another unit, or unit of it, will enter it on the "up" level,
it will be "captured", even by its own force. If this city builds an unit, this one will be brought "down", while the rest of it will be brought "up".

Also, it seems that the unit that's "down" can attack units that it brought on its level by moving under them, and can capture this city, by that coming on the "up" level.

I have to check yet it a unit that's "down" can take a hidden city, which by analogy, probably is on its level.

	20-01-2004 09:07									#2
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sounds like a forerunner in the code for the layered maps of ToT... interesting read

	20-01-2004 20:19									#3
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It looks to me like you created a unit on an (odd, even) or (even, odd) coordinate. That's what happens.

The map only has (even, even) or (odd, odd) squares. This discrepancy only became a problem when they created the events language. They forgot to put in a safeguard that disallows wrong coordinates. The result is a weird graphical effect, and units that can't be reached.

This is interesting though:

quote: But they DO interact with units that remain on the "up" level. They simply suck them into the "down" level. These units "disappear" on our levels.

Really? Do they really suck them down, or is it just a temporary glitch, so those "normal" units still appear on ground level on their next turn?

I think they fixed it in MGE (events with illegal coordinates won't work?).

It's not related to the changeterrain thing which can cover up units or cities.

	20-01-2004 20:54									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Mercator It looks to me like you created a unit on an (odd, even) or (even, odd) coordinate. That's what happens. The map only has (even, even) or (odd, odd) squares. This discrepancy only became a problem when they created the events language. They forgot to put in a safeguard that disallows wrong coordinates. The result is a weird graphical effect, and units that can't be reached.

Yes, that's what the problem was in Fading Lights, that's what I suspected here, and that's what it's been.
Fixed it yesterday

quote: quote: But they DO interact with units that remain on the "up" level. They simply suck them into the "down" level. These units "disappear" on our levels. Really? Do they really suck them down, or is it just a temporary glitch, so those "normal" units still appear on ground level on their next turn?

No, it's not what You think. It's pernament. An interesting thing is that I had a game in which created units wouldn't appear; they got stucked at certain level, still defence advisor showed more of them then really existed. But events didn't create any more. I reloded events thanks to delevent, and it started to work, moreover, a lot of units appeared all over the map, as if the change of events uncovered them.

quote: It's not related to the changeterrain thing which can cover up units or cities.

It acts similar.

	28-01-2004 21:29									#5
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I'm thinking about somthing. It is a thing mentioned earlier; if a unit can be created in 11,12, it must exist. Just it's not visible; I will check whether units that interacted with such unit, are also located in similar, odd-even (or whatever) field. I think it should be possible in city screen, right?