22-01-2004 00:37									#151
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel you just realized that?

no I've had my doubts for a while... the other night sealed the deal

	22-01-2004 00:39									#152
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If he just hadn't done the Yeeeeaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh!

	22-01-2004 00:41									#153
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He should have ended it by saying, "That's the bottomline 'cause Stone Cold Dean said so!" and then guzzeled beer.

	22-01-2004 00:42									#154
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc He should have ended it by saying, "That's the bottomline 'cause Stone Cold Dean said so!" and then guzzeled beer.

wow DD said something funny

	22-01-2004 00:51									#155
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quote: this whole "front runner" crap was created by the meida... I'm glad to see the media was shot down.

No worries... the media will just cloak Kerry as "front runner" and rip him apart unless he goes down to someone else. It's a nice little circle they got.

	22-01-2004 00:54									#156
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: this whole "front runner" crap was created by the meida... I'm glad to see the media was shot down. No worries... the media will just cloak Kerry as "front runner" and rip him apart unless he goes down to someone else. It's a nice little circle they got.

how?

what I find funny is that Kerry's voting record is far more "liberal" than Dean's... yet Dean was considered the liberal candidate.

	22-01-2004 01:03									#157
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quote: how?

What do you mean how? Easily. It's already begun. Kerry's campaign contributions have jumped 40% since Iowa and the media is beginning to put him on that pedestal.

quote: what I find funny is that Kerry's voting record is far more "liberal" than Dean's... yet Dean was considered the liberal candidate.

It's because Dean was a retard and decided that he should portray himself as a liberal in order to gain votes in the primary.

	22-01-2004 01:12									#158
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui What do you mean how? Easily. It's already begun. Kerry's campaign contributions have jumped 40% since Iowa and the media is beginning to put him on that pedestal.

no.... I meant give me some specific things the media might say about Kerry.

quote: It's because Dean was a retard and decided that he should portray himself as a liberal in order to gain votes in the primary.

going after the base and then "moving to the center" is always the goal of primary politics... it's what Bush did. The problem is, the media didn't like Dean and jumped on the "he's the liberal" line and ran with it.

The way I've come to understand it, someone plants a story like this... and everyone else runs with it because they are too lazy to do their homework. And once the cat is out of the bag, nobody wants to admit they are wrong. Case in point, how many people were saying Dean is the front runner? How many have retracted or admitted their mistake? eh?

	22-01-2004 01:19									#159
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It's not that they'll just start fawning over the guy, it's a little more subtle than that: it's the words they choose in writing their stories. Look at this header from CNN:

quote: MANCHESTER, New Hampshire (CNN) -- Sen. John Kerry's presidential campaign is "taking off" with a dramatic increase in donations, a campaign aide said Tuesday, following the Massachusetts Democrat's come-from-behind victory in the Iowa caucuses.

"taking off", "dramatic increase" and "come-from-behind" all give the reader the image of a winner, a new front-runner and a campaign that is going somewhere. For impartialities sake, it should've been written as follows:

quote: MANCHESTER, New Hampshire (CNN) -- Sen. John Kerry's presidential campaign is seeing an increase in donations, a campaign aide said Tuesday, following the Massachusetts Democrat's victory in the Iowa caucuses.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS...ions/index.html

	22-01-2004 01:22									#160
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God, can't people just drop the stupid "special interests" crap?

quote: The adviser said Kerry will deliver a speech Wednesday focusing on "ending the era of special interests" in the Bush administration...

Politicians have been promising to clean out the "special interests" since 1792... 'bout time they actually do it or stop whining about it, dontcha think?

	22-01-2004 01:30									#161
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quote: I meant give me some specific things the media might say about Kerry.

I dunno, like Kerry is now in the driver's seat for the nomination (a definite if he wins in NH). Kerry has the lead, etc, etc. It does depend on NH. Even if he loses SC to Edwards (or even Clark), if he can win Iowa and NH, the media will annoint him.

quote: going after the base and then "moving to the center" is always the goal of primary politics

Yes, but you can't go far left or far right and then scurry back.. or else you get pummled. Remember, EVEN in the primaries, Bush was calling himself a 'compassionate conservative'. He wasn't going right-center instead of far-right.

quote: how many people were saying Dean is the front runner?

Because HE WAS! Did you see the poll numbers?

	22-01-2004 02:04									#162
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quote: Because HE WAS! Did you see the poll numbers?

precisely my point... HE WASN'T... not one vote had been cast. And in those polls, like 30% was always "undecided". And Dean was barely above the margin of error.

	22-01-2004 02:19									#163
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quote: precisely my point... HE WASN'T... not one vote had been cast.

What do votes have to do with front runner status before the primaries? The polls showed Dean in the lead, hence front runner.

	22-01-2004 02:24									#164
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Bill Maher said it best on Wolf Blitzer--Iowa was simply a proper adjustment of the Democratic field. Dean's huge polling advantages were incredibly unrealistic from the start.

He's got some hope left, but he's not helping himself much. My hope is that Clark gains from his decline and wins NH. I think a Clark-Edwards ticket is the best chance for the Democrats in the fall.

	22-01-2004 02:31									#165
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According to the blog that Aggie linked, Dean's people in Iowa really fubared the whole Gephart thing, and Edwards picked up support from Gephart's people where Gephart wasn't viable. Handled correctly, it could have been Dean with 33%.

What the media will attack Kerry on is being a cold fish and boring. Lord, that man needs to learn how to edit his speeches.

I have a problem with his vote for the war and his dishonesty about it. He says he voted with good faith in the President, but if you look back at what the Dem's were saying in Sept 2002, they voted in favor of the war to get the issue out of the way in order to be able to debate the GOP on the economy and corporate cronyism. They didn't want to be hammered by the GOP in campaign as being soft on Iraq.

	22-01-2004 02:38									#166
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quote: He says he voted with good faith in the President, but if you look back at what the Dem's were saying in Sept 2002, they voted in favor of the war to get the issue out of the way in order to be able to debate the GOP on the economy and corporate cronyism.

That doesn't mean Kerry didn't vote with good faith. I mean Lieberman definetly voted in good faith for the war, even if the Dems as a majority did not.

	22-01-2004 02:42									#167
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui That doesn't mean Kerry didn't vote with good faith. I mean Lieberman definetly voted in good faith for the war, even if the Dems as a majority did not.

Well, Lieberman's only a Democrat in name.

	22-01-2004 02:50									#168
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Dean is still leading in the NH polls, though Kerry has polled close.

	22-01-2004 03:55									#169
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In reading about the caucus I was struck by how political it is. Very different from the atomized, go and vote in your private both. Wheeling, dealnig, amking your case to others, alliances, betrayals, revenge, trule love . . . oh, wait, that's The Princess Bride.