21-01-2004 00:14									#31
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Personally, I wouldn't mind the idea of the OPTION of investing my SS money in stock funds/bond funds/etc like my 401(k) or IRA. Higher risk, higher potential return.

But then again, since the point of SS is supposedly to provide retirement benifits to citizens (whether they want 'em or not ), having an option where you could actually lose the money is probably opening the door to all sorts of whining by people who do it and then want to blame the government when they lose. So nevermind then.

-Arrian

	21-01-2004 00:15									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Yes!!! Let's rely on corporate America for our retirements!

You're counting on the government to provide for your retirement? That takes a special kind of stupid.

	21-01-2004 00:15									#33
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Dino.

-Arrian

	21-01-2004 00:17									#34
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc You're counting on the government to provide for your retirement? That takes a special kind of stupid.

At least government is accountable to voters... can't say the same thing about corporate America. But go ahead, trust your future to Ken Lay...

	21-01-2004 00:22									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Sava At least government is accountable to voters...

That makes piss poor performance when compared to other options acceptable to you. This just keeps getting more amusing.

quote: can't say the same thing about corporate America.

Actually we can. When run by them, Ponzi schemes are against the law. We can not say the same when the government does it.

	21-01-2004 00:27									#36
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Personally the people going on Social Security in the near future are the ones who created the overly ambitous system, AND the ones who made it insolvent by setting the trend of spending the money on other things.

It is like your parents dieing and leaving you with a 100,000 oustanding loan instead of an inheritance, and knowing about it ahead of time. Only our parents are not dead yet....

Take their SS back for bieng retards.

	21-01-2004 00:55									#37
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I was looking at the Rich Dad and Poor Dad book on the the subgest and he say privatisn SS is than real dumb idear as the average person doesnot know how to invest in the stockmarket at all. Plus bush plan only allow you to invest 1% of your SS money anyway so it you paid in 10000 dollar this year you will only be able to invert 100 dollar in stocks.

	21-01-2004 01:08									#38
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quote: Originally posted by CharlesBHoff ... bush plan only allow you to invest 1% of your SS money anyway so it you paid in 10000 dollar this year you will only be able to invert 100 dollar in stocks.

Woo-hoo! Penny stocks, here I COME!!!

	21-01-2004 01:15									#39
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Thats why they should leave open the CHOICE to invest in the government or the private market. Part of bieng a democracy. Both having the choice and simultaneously taking resposibility if you choose wrong (people forget that second one.

Combine that with not allowing the the government to borrow from those who do stick with them and you have a pretty full proof plan. Had it been like that from the beginning that is. But they didn't and there is no painless way to rectify the boomer's mistakes.

	21-01-2004 01:23									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper Woo-hoo! Penny stocks, here I COME!!!

Penny stocks are the riskist investment on wall street. It like puting all of your money in junk bonds very riskly.

	21-01-2004 01:43									#41
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So were will the 1 TRILLION dollars to do this come from? anyone?

Anyone care that moving the retirement age back, say to 70 years old, would extend the life of the system by decades?

	21-01-2004 01:45									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos Thats why they should leave open the CHOICE to invest in the government or the private market. Part of bieng a democracy.

We do, and that's why polls overwhemlingly oppose the privitization of SS. That's why actually attempting to privatize it would be political suicide.

	21-01-2004 01:48									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Yes!!! Let's rely on corporate America for our retirements! The same corporate America, who out of the Fortune 100, 67 companies have been CONVICTED of crimes. That doesn't count those who have gotten away. Privating Social Security is such a DUMB idea... anyone who thinks it is good is CRIMINALLY STUPID!

You know Sava, with your penchant for using CAPS and OVERSIZED LETTERS you have a very bright future writing for Chick publications, you know that?

	21-01-2004 01:51									#44
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The sole problem is SS is that people are living longer without being productive. So, if one changes the system to account for this, say, make people work longer before they can get in (and perhaps end the ability to retire early and still get benefits), well then, you have "fixed" the problem.

The call to privatize SS has nothing to do with really "saving the system", but is an ideological opposition to the notion of SS as it works today.

	21-01-2004 01:54									#45
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At some point the age should probably be changed, yes, since the life expectancy of Americans has gone up since SS was created.

The rest of the money will have to come from either a) tax increases; b) spending cuts; or c) both.

Personally, I don't think we need, what is it now?, SIX supercarrier battlegroups. I don't think we need 1/10 of the nukes we already have, let alone "mini nukes." I'm sure we can cut some from the Air Force too. The Army I'd leave the hell alone, at least until we get out of Iraq. Though future procurement could probably stand some cuts. I'm sure there is all sorts of pork in that military budget that could be cut.

Freeze the salaries of Congress, the President and the Cabinet until the government runs a surplus for four straight years (hopefully said surplus will be used to help pay down the debt).

Reverse the Bush tax cuts.

And see where that leaves us. It's probably not nearly enough. We will have to cut more, and tax more too, until we close the gap.

This country has been living beyond its means for quite some time now. The sooner we tighten the belt and deal with the debt we've racked up, the better.

-Arrian

	21-01-2004 01:58									#46
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quote: At some point the age should probably be changed, yes, since the life expectancy of Americans has gone up since SS was created.

Not only that, but they've increased to the point where the majority of people are able to use their accounts - don't forget that the SS retirement age of 65 was implemented in an time where the avg. lifespan (all Americans) was just 58. Hell, it wasn't until the early-1980s where the average black man was living long enough to collect on their SS money.

	21-01-2004 02:00									#47
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Bush is into the smoke and mirrors phase of his political career now. Nothing of substance will ever come of his presidency again.

	21-01-2004 02:01									#48
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The age should go up asap- and as I said, that by itself would extand the life of the system decades. Then, change how benefits are given out, such as nt allowing early retirements on SS money (you can sue your own if you want to do this), and perhaps cutting benefits to people above a certain income bracket. Changes like that, which take incredably less money to implement, would keep the system working and connected to modern realities. SS payroll taxes in no way detract people form the ability to invest thioer own money for thier won pruposes-the people who get hit worse with payroll taxes are also the peaople least likely to invest.

	21-01-2004 02:11									#49
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quote: We do, and that's why polls overwhemlingly oppose the privitization of SS. That's why actually attempting to privatize it would be political suicide.

And you point out one of the major flaws of democracy, that all anyone cares about is what benefits them now (greed), whether it is for the overall good or not in the long run. Nor does it matter whether it makes any sence in its current form, as long as you get your cash early despite the factors GePap pointed out that call for reform.

Those are the two reasons it is political suicide to even attempt to change the system. Because that, while helping the system and benefiting later generations, is not in accord with the greedy voting seniors.

	21-01-2004 02:14									#50
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quote: Originally posted by CharlesBHoff Plus bush plan only allow you to invest 1% of your SS money anyway so it you paid in 10000 dollar this year you will only be able to invert 100 dollar in stocks.

The three proposals on the drawing board call for investment of 1% to 4% of your wages, not your SS money.

I wouldn't mind a voluntary program, with the existing program available to those who opt out.

	21-01-2004 02:19									#51
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc You're counting on the government to provide for your retirement? That takes a special kind of stupid.

Actually the government is much more dependable than corporations. That's why treasury bonds are safer than corporate bonds.

	21-01-2004 02:24									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Stuie I wouldn't mind a voluntary program, with the existing program available to those who opt out.

I doubt if anyone will opt out anyway, after they find out that they won't get any survivor of disability benefits.

	21-01-2004 03:30									#53
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara We do, and that's why polls overwhemlingly oppose the privitization of SS. That's why actually attempting to privatize it would be political suicide.

Which is exactly why you should be in favor of Bush's plan.

	21-01-2004 03:50									#54
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Damn that simian butthead!

	21-01-2004 03:54									#55
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Actually what Bush ought to do is increase the individual retirement accounts dramatically. We can now put aside $2000 per year tax-free, but that is woefully insufficient.

As to Social Security, the government ought to use your money to buy long-term government bonds and have the income from those bonds be placed into your account.

	21-01-2004 05:49									#56
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Actually I support this, it will give us socialist-minded folk a lot of new supporters over the next ten to twenty years.

	21-01-2004 06:09									#57
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quote: Originally posted by CharlesBHoff Penny stocks are the riskist investment on wall street. It like puting all of your money in junk bonds very riskly.

Oh, I know that. But with standard stocks, I'd be able to buy 1.5 shares of my company's stock with a $100 a year ... even with a 15 percent discount. Besides, on the lighter side of things, if I have $100 to burn, why not buy into $1 to $10 per share stocks or something (after a bit of research, anyway)?

Personally, I think med tech companies are going to be the money-makers ... especially those that deal with chronic conditions (unless they cure 'em, of course).

Gatekeeper

	21-01-2004 06:12									#58
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider Actually I support this, it will give us socialist-minded folk a lot of new supporters over the next ten to twenty years.

Again we have a Leftist who wishes ill among people for political gain. What is it with you people?

	21-01-2004 06:21									#59
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Righties like Ned are encouraging us.

	21-01-2004 06:25									#60
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Naw, it's gotta be more deep-rooted than that. Y'all make jokes all the time about killing people, shutting your enemies in the gulags, etc. It is no wonder that the rest of us believe that Communism is a religion of hatred, for haters.

Last edited by JohnT on 21-01-2004 at 06:33