20-01-2004 23:16									#1
	Bush going to propose privatizing Social Security again tonight. Support Apolyton

He wants people to be able to put their Social Security contributions in a private account. Does he realize how large the budget deficit would be if the federal govt wasn't using the surplus from the SS fund to pay for the tax cuts? If the Republicans were able to do this the budget deficit would definitely set records as a percent of GDP and the economy would surely be wrecked.

Last edited by Kidicious on 20-01-2004 at 23:49

	20-01-2004 23:18									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

The only people who know how to manage an economy are socialists. Both neocons and neolibs smoke crack.

	20-01-2004 23:19									#3
	Suffering from ads?

Glad you're concerned about the potential for people to lose their SS money, Kid.

	20-01-2004 23:20									#4
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

It won't sail with the elderly. And they always vote. He's just trying to rally his base support.

	20-01-2004 23:33									#5
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More power to him.....

Screw the elderly, or better yet, throw 'em out of helicopters.

	20-01-2004 23:34									#6
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you criminal

	20-01-2004 23:34									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

And have them eat dog food...

But I hope he actually has some backbone for once, and doesn't puss out like he normally does. Privatize it.

	20-01-2004 23:38									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

If it's privitized, the Feds will go bankrupt or have to pass massive tax increases to pay for the Social Security of those who've already paid in. Either way, it's a recipe for disaster.

	20-01-2004 23:39									#9
	Re: Bush going to propose privatizing Social Security again tonight. Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Kidicious He wants people to be able to put their Social Security contributions in a private account.

Oh Horrors!

Just imagine if people could actually make some money off their social security payments?

This is a travesty!

This is the worst possible thing that could ever happen!

This is not socialism!

All people must be totally dependent on the government for a living, after all.

	20-01-2004 23:43									#10
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How many people here would've liked to have had their savings invested in Enron circa 2001?

	20-01-2004 23:45									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

If someone is in the stock market long term, diversified they make out much better than social security even with all the crashes and bubble bursts over the last 80 years.

	20-01-2004 23:47									#12
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Hell, you could put it in a money market, and make out far better than what the government is doing.

	20-01-2004 23:48									#13
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I would say most people don't want privatized SS as long as they're reasonably certain the gov't isn't just going to blow it.

Look at it this way, it will be more ammo against Bush in the next election.

	20-01-2004 23:50									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I agree Jimmy. I'm reasonably certain the gov't is just going to blow it.

	20-01-2004 23:51									#15
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by JohnT Glad you're concerned about the potential for people to lose their SS money, Kid.

Didn't we agree that it was a tax?

	20-01-2004 23:53									#16
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Hey guys, I have a really great idea. On the cusp of the largest generation retiring, let's stop putting any new money into SS?

So, on top of having to pay your 13% into some IRA, you'll have to pay taxes to pay for your parents and grandparents retirement. Hope you like massive tax increases.

	20-01-2004 23:54									#17
	Put an end to popups!

SS is a Ponzi scheme. I'd be ok with it if it was set up such that the government couldn't "borrow" from the SS fund any time they damn well please, but of course that would be imposing some vague notion of fiscal responsibility on the government and goodness knows we can't have THAT!

Bush must know there is no chance of privatizing it. The seniors will go berserk.

-Arrian

	20-01-2004 23:55									#18
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Something was lost here on most of you. You seem to believe that being allowed to make interest on your SS is worth allowing the federal government to go bankrupt. Can't you see that the latter has an effect on you personally?

	20-01-2004 23:56									#19
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Hey guys, I have a really great idea. On the cusp of the largest generation retiring, let's stop putting any new money into SS? So, on top of having to pay your 13% into some IRA, you'll have to pay taxes to pay for your parents and grandparents retirement. Hope you like massive tax increases.

I say we just jackhammer their benefits.

gotta stop the seniors from voting somehow tho.....

	20-01-2004 23:57									#20
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quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP If someone is in the stock market long term, diversified they make out much better than social security even with all the crashes and bubble bursts over the last 80 years.

Past trends aren't necessarily an indicator of future developments. I've read a few opinions stating that the next 10 years will average about 3.5% growth, as opposed to 7%.

	20-01-2004 23:58									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I wish the Feds would take a bite out of the FIT. I had well over $3000 taken out of my gross earnings last year, and that's not including SS and Medicare.

Personally, I wouldn't mind paying into SS if the money I paid in remained in an account for me, instead of going into some nebulous pool. I know damn well that SS won't be around when I retire, so I'm essentially getting ripped off to pay for today's seniors. They oughta bite the bullet, allow SS to remain with the individuals who pay it, and find some other means to tide over the existing SS seniors who didn't have that option when they were paying in.

Yeah, I know. Easier said than done. Nonetheless ...

Gatekeeper

	20-01-2004 23:59									#22
	Re: Re: Bush going to propose privatizing Social Security again tonight. Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Ned All people must be totally dependent on the government for a living, after all.

Instead the people are dependent on the market. Yeah, the market has done so well lately in creating high paying jobs.

Better to have a social security entitlement as a safety net (inadequate as it is ...). Besides, all of those who invest their money in the next bubble will just come crying for their benefits when they retire.

Better idea - shift the payroll tax to the employers themselves and vest an entitlement in the workers. That takes the tax burden off the lower and middle classes (so they have more money to spend) while providing solvency for the Social Security program. The payroll tax hit the employers take will be more than made up for by the increased consumption of the lower and middle classes. Hey, the money that get frees up could even be invested right? There you go, workers can have their cake and eat it too.

	21-01-2004 00:01									#23
	Got spare money?

There will be *****ing, moaning, complaining, and all manner of rhetoric. But in the end, taxes will rise so that the Boomers get their SS money. And the government will most likely keep dipping its grubby paws into the pot whenever it's short on cash for whatever pet project they wanna blow a few hundred billion on.

-Arrian

	21-01-2004 00:01									#24
	Put an end to popups!

I think this concept would fly if the government did the investing and did it by broadly investing in every stock listed on the major exchanges in some defined formula. This should provide an average growth in value of around 10% per year, a lot higher, I would point out, than one could make putting money into one's mattress or the SS system, which amount to the same thing.

	21-01-2004 00:03									#25
	Throwing the eldery out of helecopters could be unhealthy... Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

...they might land on somebody.

Ever think of THAT? HUH?

Nobody THINKS anymore...

	21-01-2004 00:05									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian There will be *****ing, moaning, complaining, and all manner of rhetoric. But in the end, taxes will rise so that the Boomers get their SS money. And the government will most likely keep dipping its grubby paws into the pot whenever it's short on cash for whatever pet project they wanna blow a few hundred billion on. -Arrian

There's going to be more than complaining. There will be a real negative effect on the economy.

	21-01-2004 00:06									#27
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Ned I think this concept would fly if the government did the investing and did it by broadly investing in every stock listed on the major exchanges in some defined formula. This should provide an average growth in value of around 10% per year, a lot higher, I would point out, than one could make putting money into one's mattress or the SS system, which amount to the same thing.

ARGH! No, it's not the same thing. SS payments are used to fund the Federal govt.

	21-01-2004 00:07									#28
	Re: Throwing the eldery out of helecopters could be unhealthy... Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Lancer ...they might land on somebody. Ever think of THAT? HUH? Nobody THINKS anymore...

To some of us, YOU'RE elderly...Lancer...

	21-01-2004 00:10									#29
	Got spare money?

Yes!!! Let's rely on corporate America for our retirements!

The same corporate America, who out of the Fortune 100, 67 companies have been CONVICTED of crimes. That doesn't count those who have gotten away.

Privating Social Security is such a DUMB idea... anyone who thinks it is good is CRIMINALLY STUPID!

	21-01-2004 00:11									#30
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The government needs to seperate SS from the general fund. That will mean tax increases once the government can no longer treat SS like a piggie bank, yes. So be it.

-Arrian