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alexman
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Hunt Valley, MD
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
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The AI aggression settings are why Bismark and Shaka are such a pain, while Joan and Ghandi are good trading partners. For the most part, civilization aggression settings are chosen to match the civilization traits quite well. Militaristic civilizations, or civilizations with strong ancient UU, get high aggression (Germany, Rome, Japan, Persia, Aztecs, Zululand, Mongols, Scandinavia, Celts, Hittites), and builder civilizations get low aggression (France, India, Carthage, Sumeria, Korea). However, there are some cases where the AI would benefit from a different aggression level than what Firaxis has assigned. For example:
- Babylon is a classic builder civilization, so her AI aggression could be lower than 3/5. Notice how C3C changed the aggression of Hammurabi, down from 4/5. Another influence of the AU mod?
- China is a militaristic civilization, very popular among human warmongers, yet the AI aggression level is only 2/5.
- Greece is scientific builder civilization with a defensive UU. Her AI aggression could be lower than 3/5.
- Russia is another scientific civilization, with no clear reason for aggressive behavior. She could benefit from reducing her 4/5 aggression level.
- America is a builder civilization, with no UU until the modern age. Reducing her aggression from 3/5 might be in order.
- The Iroquois have one of the best UU in the game, yet their aggression level is only 2/5.
Perhaps we can change AI aggression so that the total aggression of all civilizations remains the same, for example:
China: 2->4
Greece: 3->2
Russia: 4->2
America: 3->2
Iroquois: 2->4
On the other hand, some players feel that changing AI aggression levels is confusing because people are used to a friendly Mao and a mean Catherine.
So what do you think? Do you have any suggestions for changes to other civilizations' AI aggression? Would changing aggression levels change the feel of the AI leaders too much from stock? Do you think it's worth the change if it's going to make the AI take better advantage of their traits?
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ducki
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I would say Russia because of the expansionist trait. You can't be expanding if you are a timid little girl.
For the same reason, I'd say all Commercial civs should be slightly more aggressive(by 1) than you would normally think they should be due to the advantage they have in a larger than default empire.
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pvzh
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Canada
Aug 2002
time: 01:33
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Not sure what you ment by Dogger bank incident (probably we, russian, calls it in the other way). Besides, it is an incident.
Crimean war was declared upon Russia by coallition of most European countries (even Piemount participated. What did they forgot there?) and was fought on russian soil. Hardly a war of agression.
Cold War was not really a war, but even so it was not declared by Russia either. First was Fulton speach by Churchill, NATO and only then Warsaw Pact. Soviet Union even did not have a doctrine of pre-emptive nuclear strike unlike USA.
Finns were not really conquered: Finnland was aquired through Treaty of Tilsit (around 1806 or 1807) and after that enjoyed the broadest possible autonomy. Russian Emperor assumed the title of the Great Duke of Finland, Finlad had constitution, Senate, separate laws. Not even dime was collected to the impereal treasury from them. The only benefit of empire was Helsingfors (Helsinky) as naval base.
Swedes: I think only Norther War 1700-1721 could be called a formal agression. We declared the war, but it was thought only to return the territories that were extorted and captured by Swedes during turmoil of 1590s-1600s. Several consequetive wars with Sweden in 19th century were declared by Sweden.
Poles: similar story. Russia Minor (Ukraine) is Russia afterall. Although in the end Russian Empire ended up with big chunk of Poland (two smaller ones were in Prussia and Austro-Hungarian Empire). It agan was given broadest possible independence: nominal rule. Before uprising of 1830s they even had own army!
Wars with Turks in 19th century could be considered as wars of agression because most of them were disputes over right of passage through Bosphor and Dardanelle Straight.
French?  what does that mean? Joining the anti-Napoleon coalitions or Crimean War again?
Not to mention that emperor Alexander I was initiator of Viena Treaty (1813) that was first attempt to work out rules of peaceful resolutions of inter-state conflicts.
What I am saying that Russia was not some kind of state of saints or peaceniks, but that her agressions levels were inline with or below typical europeans of any given time. Defenetly below, Germans or English, probably somewhere around France.
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pvzh
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Canada
Aug 2002
time: 01:33
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Yes, sorry about that. I promise not to reply on the issue (russian agression level) here.
From the game perspective high agression levels have to be reserved for Civ that have good offensive UU's or militaristic trait.
Defensive UU, scientific, or religious should cotribute to lower agression levels. To encourage AI to build more of cheaper infrustructure than units.
Commercial has a built-in agression modifier -- OCN bonus.
Expansionist, agricultural, industrious or seafaring are neutral to the setting IMHO.
Last edited by pvzh on 18-02-2004 at 01:14
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Theseus
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The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:33
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pvzh: Sorry, I was giving a less than thoughtful answer. Let me re-phrase... given my [less than complete] knowledge and worldview of Russian history, and perhaps also in that my own family and people were smacked around by Russia pretty badly, I gave a gut response as to the appropriate level of aggression for them, which, as alexman points out, is semi-irrelevant to AU Mod gameplay anyway. So, in other words... forget it from a serious RL perspective. 
alexman: That being said, I'll stand by my right to advise 'going slow' ... rather than yes/no choices as you have proposed, can we do this with a little more flexibility, e.g.:
China - 2, 3, 4
Thanks.
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Dominae
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1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. No
5. 423
6. 234
7. 423
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pauli
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herndon, va, usa
Jan 2000
time: 00:33
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YES
YES
YES
NO
432
234
432
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Apolyton Time is 00:33. |
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20-01-2004 23:50
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