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Guynemer
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Has anyone considered that it was Karl Rove and the Republicans who gave Iowa to Kerry?
They've spent the last few months talking about how they would love to run against Howard Dean, blah blah blah, please nominate this man. And Iowa turns around and says, "Eat ****, Karl," and chooses an allegedly stronger candidate.
Did the constant yammering and chest-thumping of the right hurt their chances in November?
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Drogue
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Omnipresent conscience
Oct 2002
time: 05:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Alexander's Horse, I think you mean far-right, extremist-religious party of facist demogogues known as the Republican party. Anyone who is not on the far fringe right, or who is not a complete dimwit, is a Democrat.
Right? |
Great, let's just misrepresent everyone elses posts 
You seem to be stuck in purely US ideas of left and right. In the rest of the world, the Democrats would be a Centre or Centre-Right party, with the Repugs being a bit further Right. As AH said, the US does not have a major leftwing or centre-left party. The US is right wing, certainly compared to Europe and Asia, and probably Australia and bits of America too. What you would consider centrist we would consider centre-right. I'm not sure in the US whether the Dems are considered Leftists, as you seemed to suggest, or centre/centre-right as they would seem over here. But I'm pretty sure, because of who the thread starter is, and the examples he has cited, that he was talking about the rest of the worlds general left-right axis. On that kind of axis, AH is exactly right, the Repugs are a rightwing conservative party and the Democrats are a centre-right progressive party.
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:33
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The Republicans gave me $800 back in taxes, and $7500 more in debt. I don't think I came out ahead in that deal. I'll give back the tax cut if I can get rid of the debt, too.
Dean lost for a number of reasons. #1, media image. The media is lazy. They don't like to look at issues, they like to look at style. It's easier. Once an image has been decided upon, they stick with it. Gore was labeled a liar, and that's what stuck, even though he wasn't. Bush was labeled as bumbling but basically honest, even though he wasn't honest (and still isn't).
Dean is labeled as angry and unelectable. Dean tapped into, not just the anti-war feeling of many Democrats, but the anger many Democratic supporters feel at their own party. He adopted Wellstone's mantra of "I represent the Democratic wing of the Democratic party." He was giving voice to the desire to take back the DP from the DLC types who have bassiclly turned the Dem's into a bunch of Republican-lites who offer little resistence to the Republican Party. Hence, the DLC saw him as a threat, and began saying, he's angry, he's unelectabvle, etc. The media picked up on this, and now it's his image.
Iowa caucuses are strange things. It's not like people show up and vote. There's wheeling and dealing and promises and backstabning and all kinds of politics going on to slect delegates. If you don't have enough to get a ful delegate, you make deals with others. The Dean people didn't do this. The Edwards people did, so the Edwards people picked up the extra Gephart support when they couldn't get their guy more delegates.
Dean is still leading in New Hampshire, but we'll see how long that holds.
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Capt Dizle
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Gephardt's stacked all his chips on Iowa and bet them on a union straight. This was the correct play looking backward at his 1988 win there. But things changed. Dean tapped into internet wackos like NeOmega and anti-war sentiment and other factors drove the turnout skyward. Sensing trouble Gephardt ran attack ads versus Dean; Dean countered. This turned off the voters who then went to Kerry because they knew him and to Edwards because of his postive message. And that is what happened in Iowa.
Reading here the thoughts of those who feel that the Democratic party is a right centrist party...yall have defined who you are. And I respect your opinions. It's just that there will never be enough of you in this country to poll in double digits.
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Capt Dizle
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Okay, it's just $1750 this year (which is still a bad trade). |
You may have a stroke to hear it, but I think Bush is awful on the economy. We have some commonality.
(that left a bad taste in my mouth, ugh)
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GePap
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of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:33
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On Dean as a fiscal liberal: when he took over Vermont, the state was in debt and had the lowest bond rating in New England. BY the time he left office, the state had the highest bond rating in New England and due to his rainy day fund the cuts and tax increases in Vermont to make up for the economic porblems were the least draconian in NE also. And every kid in vermont has health insurance and 98% of new mothers voluntarilly sdign up for state employees to go and give them advice on infant care.
He supported welfare reform and opposed the assault weapons ban. Man, what a ranging leftie that guy was!
ON Bush and taxes- lets say you are a lower middle class family with a child that goes to state schools- you don;t see any gains from capital gains tax cuts, maybe you got , like Che, $800 back. But since Bush took office state tuitions went up 20-30%, your out of pocket health care bills went up and up- and that by itself probalby wipped out any gains from the tax cut. Add to this that local taxes probably went up, and you are behind (and state taxes went up cause washington demands states fund out of thier pockets federally mandate programs- and then the feds go eve further and don't give the states in need[all of them] a dime) now, but you did not stop spending becuase you took out a new mortage due to low interest rates, which is still a loan, then bought things on credit.
So, while their out of pocket expenses have gone up, and their debt has also gone up, everyone is happy and the economy is on the up and up!
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Edan
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Dean is labeled as angry and unelectable.
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Perhaps he was "labeled" that way, but he certainly played himself into the part. He was all about being anti-Bush, and you can rarely win an election by making your campaign about being anti-incumbant (just look at how trying to get Clinton failed).
quote:
Dean is still leading in New Hampshire, but we'll see how long that holds. |
Actually, tracking polls have him third and continuing to lose ground while Kerry makes large gains. Clark is regained his lost ground and inching his way up slowly.
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22-01-2004 18:14
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