22-01-2004 13:32									#1
	GoW have Chemistry to Trade Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Regarding a trade with Chemistry, we already have Astronomy, however we would be very i nt erested in trading Chemistry regardless. What tech is GS researching now? We can perhaps make a deal on that and should costs be different, compensate them monetarily.

So shall we look to trade Banking for Chemistry?

	22-01-2004 21:49									#2
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sounds good

what is the difference in editor cost?

I'm assuming they are shooting for mil tradition. Perhaps we could trade them physics or something for metallurgy as well.

	22-01-2004 21:51									#3
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Does depreciation get taken into account?

	22-01-2004 21:57									#4
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I'm not sure if in our previous deals we took depreciation into account...I tend to think not, since we were wheeling and dealing with all civs simultaneously, usually.


hmm.

if so, our banking would be worth less, since lego has it (vox as well?) and since only GoW (presumably, though we check) has Chem.

I think we should try to make a deal based on the base beaker cost, less complicated that way.

	22-01-2004 22:12									#5
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Banking is 52, Chemistry 60.

8*24 = 196 beakers difference

	22-01-2004 22:35									#6
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I'm sorry, I'm a bit blind here, apparently C3C has eliminated my PTW editor, so I have no clue as to the values (I know some have changed, not sure which).

what is the difference between metallurgy and physics? (Or is this a hole we are going to have to make up in cash/lux)

	22-01-2004 22:37									#7
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Metallurgy and Physics are the same cost, ISTR : 64

	22-01-2004 22:39									#8
	Full PM-box? Change here!

is there anything we can offer them besides 196 gold? (maybe it would be easier to break into payments)

	22-01-2004 22:49									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

We have Incense

	22-01-2004 23:04									#10
	Increase the size of your Attachments

They won't expect 196 gold, I think that a difference of 50 gold or so would satisfy them. GoW always traeds away their techs at bottom prices... Just ask.

Oh, and of course, suitable NDAs should apply... 20 turns or so seem nice to me

DeepO

	23-01-2004 06:13									#11
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

MZ's 'poly PM box is full, so I tried him on MZO and also tried UnO - asking them if they're into Chem-4-Banking

	23-01-2004 22:35									#12
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from UnO

quote: First of all, allow me to apologise. My home PC has been on the fritz lately and I've been a bit inactive of late. That should be taken care of by the endo f the weekend, though. As for Banking, we already have made a deal for Banking elsewhere, unfortunately. However, perhaps we can make a trade based on a future tech? What were your next plans? We are currently researching Metallurgy, but I don't know the ETA at the moment. Perhaps a deal with an eye to the future would be the most beneficial to both parties anyway? - UnOrthOdOx

	24-01-2004 00:22									#13
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Damn. Physics, then?

-Arrian

	24-01-2004 00:23									#14
	Got spare money?

Ok, time to go to the airport... talk to you monday.

-Arrian

	24-01-2004 00:47									#15
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Arrian Damn. Physics, then? -Arrian

this blows

ummm....physics +magnetism for chemistry + metallurgy?

	24-01-2004 00:49									#16
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a second thought

we are apparently getting shut out on trades, yet again. I'd wager Gow is in bed with lego/vox to outstrip the nd tech pace.

perhaps we could strike a deal with nd?


hmm.

	24-01-2004 18:28									#17
	Got spare money?

ND is still missing astro, so far, and they recently rebuffed our offers of tech deals.

Chemistry has devalued - we could get it in 4 turns at 60%.

Base costs:

Chemistry : 60
Physics : 64

Full Beaker Cost:

Chem : 1440
Physics : 1536

Current beaker cost of Chemistry is between 1112 and 1185, wheras Physics is unlikely to devalue much, if at all, by the time we research it if we get Chem from GoW.

My concern is that we have to get a deal with GoW before their turn, so they can send us Chem and we could start Physics immediately. This sounds like a lot of painful work - especially with MZ ignoring his full PM box, and UnO's PC on the fry.

It also seems that GoW is trading tech with Lego, which, if true, is depressingly dumb of them.

	24-01-2004 20:06									#18
	to UnO Remove this text

quote: Hi UnO, How about Physics then? If you send us Chemistry on your turn we can start Physics on our next, while you are working on Metallurgy. Later you could trade us your Metallurgy for our Magnetism. Perhaps we could work together on Industrial techs. Our position is this : we seek a tech partner for the march into the Industrial Era, but we don't wish to trade any tech that could find its way into Legoland. The faster Lego progress in tech, the closer they move to victory. So, assuming the details of NDA's and some price balancing would be resolved, are GoW interested in a research partnership with GS along these lines? If the longer term arrangement does not suit you, are you up for a deal on Chem 4 Physics? Current devalued beaker cost for Chemistry is ~1100, and full cost for Physics is ~1500, but we may be able to concede some of this difference for a deal on Chem-Physics this turn. I should be available for chat this weekend if you like. Regards, Cort.

	24-01-2004 21:41									#19
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"It also seems that GoW is trading tech with Lego, which, if true, is depressingly dumb of them."

This may signal an alliance of some sort, but with whom as the target? I agree it is probably not good for them in th elong run, but it is much worse for us.

	24-01-2004 23:13									#20
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GoW's main problem atm is not Lego, but ND. I see only two options:
- either they have a 3-way alliance going, at least for a while, but I doubt that as GoW knows that would give victory to Lego.
- or, they have a closer relation with Lego going, to try to get to the industrial age asap, meanwhile being very gently in hampering ND. If GoW can get a chem-physics trade from us, it can pursue mil trad alone. If they get banking from Lego, and whatever other techs they need to get to industrial age from either us or ND, ND will be left behind. We won't get chem from ND, so they have no trading partner left.

GoW can not have gotten banking from ND, right? We'll see who has the tech next turn.. if ND also has it, there's a 3-way alliance. Otherwise there is a possible tension building between teh bobians. And I think we all know that ND has a very good chance of overrunning GoW if they are not backed by Lego.

DeepO

	25-01-2004 01:50									#21
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If it is not a three way then I wonder why ND has no interest in making some deal with us? It can't be that they are concerned we will overrun them.

Would it not be better if you were them and did not have a three way to make a deal with us that had an NDA? This makes it hard for us to do anything that will help GoW.